Domino's and cope & Stick
- Thread starter Richard M
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rnt80
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I can't point you to a thread but I have done this in the past when the size of the doors led me to worry about the integrity of the cope and stick joint. It only takes a minute to do and it greatly increases the strength of the joint. I used it most recently on some large doors that were part of a display case.
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Cut the mortises first.
Tom
Tom
Dave Ronyak
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Notorious T.O.D.
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I have used the Domino to reinforce cope and stick joints, especially the ones for doors that have a glass panel. I usually cut all the cope and stick joints and then do the Domino mortices last. On many of my doors I use 5/8 x 1/4 inch tongues and grooves with the cope and stick cutters. This makes a stronger joint with more glue surface for each joint. I can make these larger easily because I am not suing router cutters but rather shaper cutters which offer more options IMHO.
Best,
Todd
Best,
Todd
Jerry Work
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Hi Wayne,
From my experience it does not matter. I do a lot of rail, stile and panel construction (aka cope and stick) and make five different cuts once the stock is perfectly to dimension and cut to proper length. One is to chamfer the corners (stop the chamfer where rail and stile meet for a more tailored look), a second is to cut the tongues on rails and center stiles, a third is to cut an interior chamfer where the groove will be cut to prevent or reduce tear out (different edge profiles will obviate the need for this interior chamfer), the fourth is to cut the groove and the fifth is to cut the Domino loose tenon mortises centered on the rails centered in the groove and centered on the ends of the tongues. It makes little difference what order is used, at least the way I do it where the grooves and tongues are centered on the thickness of the work pieces.
Because supporting the tongue cut as it passes across my tongue cutter which cuts the upper and lower faces of the tongues simultaneously is easier and safer while the stock is still maximum width I usually make the cuts in the order of 1) chamfer everything (because I prefer handling chamfered stock to stock which still has its sharp corners), 2) cut the tongues, 3) cut the interior chamfer, 4) cut the grooves, 5) cut the Domino mortises. My standard is to mill the stock to 50mm wide, 20mm thick and center the 10 x 10mm tonge and groove. The chamfer cut is 2mm. I most often use either 5 or 6mm Dominos. For most pieces where strength is not too important, I use the 5mm since its purpose is to align the components far more than to strengthen the joints. With my standards the cut depth for a 5mm Domino is set to 20mm since the 5mm Domino is nominally 30mm long and the T&G is 10mm deep the net cut winds up being 10MM deep in the bottom of the groove and 20mm in the end of the tongue so the 30mm long 5mm Domino fits just fine. When I feel the project needs more strength I use the 40mm long 6mm Dominos with the cut depth set to 25mm. Now the domino tenon will seat 25mm into the end of the tongue and 15mm into the floor of the groove.
For glass doors where I want the hinge side joint to be easily taken apart in case of breakage I use the 8 x 50mm Domino with glue only on the tongue side and drive a long trim screw through the outside of stile, through the center of the 8 x 50 Domino and out into the virgin wood of the rail. That is more than stout enough to hold even very heavy glass doors like those with beveled leaded glass panels perfectly square throughout their life time. If the glass does need to be replaced I remove the door from the hinges, take out those long trim screws and gently tap the joints on the hinge side apart, remove and replace the glass and then reassemble the whole thing. I have never had a call back and my customers really like not having to look at some ugly back side glass stop. I like not having to charge them the significant cost required to size, miter and brad nail glass stop the old fashioned way.
You can see some of this in the tutorial I wrote about how to use the space between two MFTs to hold routers in an inverted position or on the side of an MFT as a horizontal router. You can download that for free from http://jerrywork.com > tutorials and scroll down to the right one. When I get time I will post a tutorial on building rail, stile and panel pieces this way.
Hope this helps.
Jerry
From my experience it does not matter. I do a lot of rail, stile and panel construction (aka cope and stick) and make five different cuts once the stock is perfectly to dimension and cut to proper length. One is to chamfer the corners (stop the chamfer where rail and stile meet for a more tailored look), a second is to cut the tongues on rails and center stiles, a third is to cut an interior chamfer where the groove will be cut to prevent or reduce tear out (different edge profiles will obviate the need for this interior chamfer), the fourth is to cut the groove and the fifth is to cut the Domino loose tenon mortises centered on the rails centered in the groove and centered on the ends of the tongues. It makes little difference what order is used, at least the way I do it where the grooves and tongues are centered on the thickness of the work pieces.
Because supporting the tongue cut as it passes across my tongue cutter which cuts the upper and lower faces of the tongues simultaneously is easier and safer while the stock is still maximum width I usually make the cuts in the order of 1) chamfer everything (because I prefer handling chamfered stock to stock which still has its sharp corners), 2) cut the tongues, 3) cut the interior chamfer, 4) cut the grooves, 5) cut the Domino mortises. My standard is to mill the stock to 50mm wide, 20mm thick and center the 10 x 10mm tonge and groove. The chamfer cut is 2mm. I most often use either 5 or 6mm Dominos. For most pieces where strength is not too important, I use the 5mm since its purpose is to align the components far more than to strengthen the joints. With my standards the cut depth for a 5mm Domino is set to 20mm since the 5mm Domino is nominally 30mm long and the T&G is 10mm deep the net cut winds up being 10MM deep in the bottom of the groove and 20mm in the end of the tongue so the 30mm long 5mm Domino fits just fine. When I feel the project needs more strength I use the 40mm long 6mm Dominos with the cut depth set to 25mm. Now the domino tenon will seat 25mm into the end of the tongue and 15mm into the floor of the groove.
For glass doors where I want the hinge side joint to be easily taken apart in case of breakage I use the 8 x 50mm Domino with glue only on the tongue side and drive a long trim screw through the outside of stile, through the center of the 8 x 50 Domino and out into the virgin wood of the rail. That is more than stout enough to hold even very heavy glass doors like those with beveled leaded glass panels perfectly square throughout their life time. If the glass does need to be replaced I remove the door from the hinges, take out those long trim screws and gently tap the joints on the hinge side apart, remove and replace the glass and then reassemble the whole thing. I have never had a call back and my customers really like not having to look at some ugly back side glass stop. I like not having to charge them the significant cost required to size, miter and brad nail glass stop the old fashioned way.
You can see some of this in the tutorial I wrote about how to use the space between two MFTs to hold routers in an inverted position or on the side of an MFT as a horizontal router. You can download that for free from http://jerrywork.com > tutorials and scroll down to the right one. When I get time I will post a tutorial on building rail, stile and panel pieces this way.
Hope this helps.
Jerry
wnagle said:
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That's a much better answer than mine, Jerry!
Tom
Tom
