Dominos for cedar bee hives

[dpetrzelka]

Yes, this is probably way over thinking things, but being new to Domino joinery, I'm trying to develop a thorough understanding of the capabilities and layout options.

I'm getting ready to build a number of medium super honey bee hives and wanted to see if anyone here had a concern about the strength of the joints I'm planning for the boxes - when full of honey each box could weigh in at 40-50lbs.

The boxes will be built from 1" cedar ( approx. 19mm or 3/4" thick ), and plan to join using 5mm Sipo Tenons - 4 per butt joint.

5mm Dominos seem an appropriate choice based on the dominos being stronger than the cedar so I've chosen dominos closer to 1/4 the stock thickness rather than the traditional 1/3. Also, I have the bit and dominos already.

The Boxes are 168mm deep, 505mm x 413mm (If I've done my metric conversions correctly).

My Domino 500 has the plastic stop dogs which alters the way I can reference mortises off of one another. I'll be using the stop dogs and the cross stops referenced on the outside edges.

So here is what I'm thinking for placement:

- Dominos centered 10mm from the outside reference face.
- 2 outer dominos centered 37mm from outsides of board using the plastic stop dogs
- 2 inner dominos centered 100mm from opposite outsides of board using the cross stops set to 100mm

Once glued up, I'm considering adding dominos vertically down through the glue joint to further stabilize it. Would these be redundant?

I'm open to any thoughts on efficient placement of the dominos as I'm just learning how best to lay things out, as well I'm just converting over to building in metric whenever possible.

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[Stoli]

I think the dominos down through the glue joint are unnecessary.

One thing to watch carefully is to use ONE reference edge if at all possible.  You are planning to use both ends of the board, that is 2 reference edges.  To go this route, your will need to ensure that all of your boards are exactly the same dimensions.

There are 2 ways to make your approach better.  The first is to select one board and make all but one of the domino holes at the medium setting.  The hole with the regular setting would be on "show" edge, or the one that you really want to line up flush.  The second is to use only ONE reference edge.  Use the plastic stop as you are planning, but only for the first domino.  Then use the cross stops for all the rest.  When you cut the mating surface, do the same thing.  This ensures that any differences in length are at the back of the piece and you will still be able to assemble.  You could also combine these approaches, but you'll have to offset the cross stop measurement by the extra width setting.

My normal approach is to use the stop dog on one side at the tight setting, and to simply mark where I want the rest of the dominos to be.  Then I'll continue on one side at the tight setting and finish the other side at the medium setting. 

5mm will be fine; it looks like you are using them in the orientation such that the weight will be pulling across the dominos instead of pulling them out of the joint.

 

[davee]

I have about a dozen medium supers made with domino joinery.  They are a couple years old and holding up fine.  The first boxes I used the stops for the outer domino placement (37mm).  I see a bit of warping of the corners away from the edge, and on later boxes I've moved the dominos to 1 inch from the outside.  I used pine (painted the outside, inside plane) and 5mm sipo dominos.  No need for the extra ones through the glue line in my opinion. 

 

[dpetrzelka]

Thank you both - exactly what I was looking for.

I can easily draw reference lines for my mortise placement - I've done that on a number of projects cutting all dominos on the narrow setting with no alignment issues.

I could also just make a small spacer (10-20mm) that I butt the board up against to bring the mortise close to the edge while using the stop dogs - correct?

 

[Stoli]

I guess you could make a spacer, but I don't see the need.

 

[Thistleman]

Another Festolian beekeeper!!!!

British national hives are not as large as yours but still hold 35-40Lbs of honey on a good day. Held together with PVA adhesive and galvanised nails into rebated corners. Can be taken apart if necessary to replace damaged parts. Dominos give an exceptionally strong joint so this could be challenging with your design.

 

[jools]

I too am a festoolian beekeeper running 20 langstroth hives. I buy cedar brood bodies but all my honey supers are exterior grade 18mm ply all glued and dominoed. Not had a failure yet with joints and cheap and quick to make. I use plaster bead for frame runners. Have also made nuc boxes out of 12mm ply and dominoes and again great success and quick
Regards
Jools