Double Dutch Garage Door Project

[BarryL]

Well, I have been threatening to replace one of my 8 foot overhead doors, on what USED to be my garage, for quite some time now.  I finally got started on this.  It has been a very hard project for me due to inexperience with something of this scale and the design of it about kicked my mental butt!  The hardest part of this project for me thus far was the fact that these doors will have so many ways that the need to be weather sealed and me having no knowledge on how to do it.  Scouring the web and forums, I think I have come up with a way that would work.  I used kerf-in weatherstripping where I could so far and again, planning ahead for how this would all fit together for me was the hardest part.  The one item that has helped me out the most was Sketchup.  Sketchup allows me to see so many things that I might miss in the planning stages of projects. 

The project also includes finishing out a raised floor I previously installed so that it would be finished out to the front of the shop and provide the new threshold.  I will also demo the old door and raise the header for the new doors.

Without further babbling...I will get started trying to relay what I have done thus far.

Here is the problem area

 

[BarryL]

Wow am I struggling getting images to appear in-line from the gallery.  I am trying to follow the tutorial on how to do that but keep getting the "red x"??

like this...

I am going to the gallery...selecting a picture....going to my address bar and copying the url....coming back to my post and clicking the image icon which inserts the

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Barry,

I'm not certain I fully understand the challenges you are describing.  I see your raised wooden floor beyond the overhead door, and understand you plan to reset the header and install a new door.  For the doors themselves, I have been satisfied with the sealing and insulation characteristics of Clopay and other metal clad doors.  You can get 2 inch Styrofoam cores.

Are you seeking comments regarding matching the wooden floor with the new raised threshold?

Dave R.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Barry,

In your first post, the two photos came through OK.  What are you doing different now?  I go to my gallery, click on the photo I want, then right click on its properties, then copy that URL (an http:/) address, then click on the "insert image" button then paste my copied URL between the [img] symbols that appear in the draft message.  i'm a relative newbie to working with photos and hyperlinks.

Dave R.

 

[BarryL]

Sorry Dave...I was not too clear on what I am up to here!  I am actually building new doors.  Each individual door will be like a sandwhich...2 x 4 framework on the inside...mdf skins on the outside and hardi-panel skin on exterior...finished paneling on the interior.  The inside of the doors will filled with 2.5" of foam board.  There will be four individual doors making up a double dutch set...I have built quite a bit of this but am not quite finished.  some of the pictures will explain the build (I hope!)

Here are some Sketchup pictures of how I designed it.  This doesn't tell all but might give a lilttle idea of what I am thinking here.  You can see in the one image of the upper door, where it looks like a half lap....that will overlap the mating top of the lower door and that is where the kerf-in type weatherstripping will go.

Hope this makes more sense!

 

[BarryL]

Dave, that is exactly what I am doing but I get the red x for some reason.  I went back to the other way...clicking additional options at the bottom of a post and inserting attachments that way.

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Wow am I struggling getting images to appear in-line from the gallery.  I am trying to follow the tutorial on how to do that but keep getting the "red x"??

like this...

[IMG]http://www.festoolownersgroup.com/CoppermineMain/displayimage.php?album=134&pos=1[/IMG]

I am going to the gallery...selecting a picture....going to my address bar and copying the url....coming back to my post and clicking the image icon which inserts the ...then copying the url address in between the bars.....red x!

The problem is that the link you have copied is that of a whole webpage - notice how it doesn't end in .jpg which is a suffix which indicates a picture.

To insert the URL of the image, you have to right-click on it, go to Properties, and where it says "Address: (URL)", you copy and paste that address instead. In this case the URL of the garage door picture is

http://www.festoolownersgroup.com/CoppermineMain/albums/userpics/normal_door_framework_5.jpg

(Notice how this ends with .jpg)

If you enclose that URL between tags, as shown below...

[IMG]http://www.festoolownersgroup.com/CoppermineMain/albums/userpics/normal_door_framework_5.jpg[/IMG]

...then the picture will show up like this...

Forrest

 

[BarryL]

Ahhh..Forrest...most excellent..now I'm with you.  I am hopefully off to the races now.  Thank you!

 

[BarryL]

Here you can see a few pictures of a raised floor that I installed quite some time ago.  It stopped short of the original roll up doors that are currently (well...one is) on the shop.  I only plan on replacing one of the doors...the other I will frame in and put in a window.  That will give me more wall space in the garage turned shop. 

Let me tell you what a pain it was installing the raised floor.  It is old computer room tile on supports and beveled and tapered 2 x 6.  Then it is covered with T & G plywood.  The floor is very solid and level.  Anyway...the floor will need to be extended to form the new threshold for the new doors.  I had thought about forming it and pouring concrete but nixed that idea.  I went with framing it in with treated lumber.

 

[nickao]

I have to love a guy that steals his garage for a shop!

Does the wife park outside like mine? 

 

[BarryL]

Yep Nickao she does.  I have to say though that I am very blessed with the fact that she fully understands the need for this shop.  She is tolerant of the fact that the house needs to be remodeled yet we keep pouring more money into building this shop.  Heck, she bought me a boom arm for Christmas!    Besides...it's hasn't fully transitioned into a woodworking shop yet...you can see in the first photo where she doesn't mind spending time in the "shop"....did I mention she loves football?

 

[nickao]

Sounds like our wives are a lot alike in that sense.

Even when its 20 below and 10 inches of snow she doesn't complain. She leaves right after I go to bed so she is on her own clearing the car of snow to leave in the morning,.

Our home is the same it not only needs work, but half way completed projects are in many rooms and we still get shop stuff before finishing the house.

 

[BarryL]

Yes that does sound like they are alike.  frankly...I couldn't do this if it wasn't for her and all the help she gives me.  Future plans are to get her Hegner scroll saw and two carvewrights set up...so we can have more fun together

Here are some more shots of the demo and getting the floor finished.

In this shot the demolition is near done and a temporary wall is up.

I will need to bring the floor out level with the top of the tile where I will then put 3/4 plywood on top.

The garage floor is sloped such that the boards will require a bevel to account for the front to back slope and a taper to account for the peak in the floor at the center of the garage.  Now you can get the feel for why I felt whole floor project was a real pain!  Here I am shaving a couple blocks (with bevels on the bottom already) and checking for level so that I can determine the dimensions needed to cut a 10' 2 x 8 to fit up front.

 

[BarryL]

We all know that no project goes by without buying something new Festool..and I do need to cut something 10' long and I am sure I don't have to tell anybody what's in that box...

I am set up on the floor with foam boards to make my cut.  The saw is on a 1.5 degree bevel and the marks have been made to account for the taper.

The cut is made with a brand new rip blade in the TS55.

A second board is cut and check for level.

A third board is cut for a "cap" for the threshold.  I used short sections of angle iron with holes drilled for cement anchors to secure the treated lumber to the concrete floor.  The top board was nailed down with a framing nailer.

Blocking was cut and screwed between the long runs for support.  Then the solid 1.25" computer room tiles will be put back in place.  The T & G plywood will fit very nicely over top of all this.  Before that happens all the new framework will rest on top of the threshold.

couple more shots

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Thanks, Barry.  And Forrest.  Now I understand what you plan to build.  I've been through one of those old garage conversions, too.  I had to rip my  pressure treated floor joists freehand before there was any Festool in USA.  First I thoroughly scrubbed the floor to remove all old oil and grease with solvents with TSP in hot water.  After it was thoroughly cleaned and dry, I spread a heavy layer of bituminous adhesive from Bruce Flooring and over that I laid 6 mil plastic film.  Then I started cutting and laying the PT joists.  When they were all in, I nailed 3/4 PT SYP plywood on top, then started laying the 7/8I thick T&G red oak flooring I made starting with rough sawn lumber purchased from an Amish mill.

But I digress much too far.  Your doors...I'd be concerned about using typical MDF for the outside panels.  I'd be using the waterproof grade that is used for interstate highway signs, which I think is called MDO, or an exterior grade plywood.  I like the layered build-up that you plan.

My former house when built had garage doors with MDF panels in a wooden frame.  Eventually, water seeped into the joints and into the edges of the panels and caused them to degrade.  I replaced them with Clopay metal doors with 2" thick foam cores.  No more warping, no more painting and much better sealing and insulation properties.

Dave R.

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

Barry,

Have you planned out how you will hinge these large and heavy doors.  If you have not thought about that you may want to give it some thought before you get too far along with construction.  Many years ago I built an entryway for my dad's place that had a 4' wide by 8 ft tall by 1.75" thick solid cherry door which I estimated weighed about 160-180 pounds without hardware.  It ended up being hung on four 4" ball bearing hinges.  The side jambs also have to be able to handle the weight and the joints in the door itself have to be strong enough to withstand the stress of the doors own weight and gravity pulling on it and making it sag out of square.

Best,
Todd

 

[nickao]

Barry, looks like a nice shop is coming together! I only wish I could use a separate garage to work in rather than the attached 3 car.

In this county you can not run a home based business out of an unattached garage, Its the most F** up thing ever, but I can run a business in my attached garage. That's why a few guys in the neighborhood have two garages, one unattached for their cars and another 3 or 4 car attached garage for their work shops! One guy even has a five car attached garage!

 

[BarryL]

Dave, Todd...I have to say that I am doing this all backwards in a way....I am fairly far along at this point and wish I could have found time to learn how to manipulate files and then properly post.  I have been at just that all day.  Anyway, had I been able to do that I could have posted all along while I was planning and building.

I wish I would have used MDO instead of MDF.  I would have liked the flatter surface than MDF as well.  I will do my best to seal the perimeters of the doors against water.  The layers were glued using good constuction adhesive.  The very outside panel is called "Hardi-Panel"  No sweat with the weather..it is cement board and paint will hold up well...BUT..it does bring up more of where your mind is Todd....that Hardi-Panel is HEAVY!  I have not weighed one of thes quadrants (but will) and I have thought long and hard about just the questions you ask.

Here you can see the three layers of build-out for the framing and then the blocking and another 2 x 6 to get the final dimension for the finished frame.  I used 8 inch long heavy screws to hold in place and then went back in (I think three) places and drilled all the way through and put carriage bolts through this whole sandwich.  I will try to get some pictures of that and insert them here.

8 inch long screws

Drilling for the carriage bolts.

I dont believe the framework will pose any problem with sagging...

For the jambs...

Near 2-inch thick solid oak jambs compared to a 2 x 6.

Three of these per quadrant

4.5" x 4.5" hinges with 1/4 inch screws long enough to go through the oak and into the rough framing.

For the doors I reinforced where the 1/4" screws will go into the doors by using two dominos one behing another so that the screws would have something solid to bite into.

You can see that I am fairly well along the build path...I will outline how I went about that in future posts.

BTW...thank you so much for your ideas!

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Soon we'll be able to see the doors to Fort Londrigan!!  I think the door posts are likely to hold up the weight!  I forgot about the Hardi board.  That's a type of cement board, right?  Certainly weatherproof.  Just seal up that MDF so moisture from condensation doesn't degrade it (cause it to swell).

Dave R.

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

Looks like you have thought it out pretty well and done a nice job with the construction too.  It should turn out quite nice I think...

Best,
Todd