Dovetail Technique

[Birdhunter]

I’m learning to do handcut dovetails. I’ve watched a lot of videos and have picked up some techniques that work for me and some that don’t.

I have a question about technique.

I cut the tails first using the Dave Barron magnetic guide and then pencil mark the pins using the L shaped Barron marking guide and the Barron magnetic guide.

I’ve had difficulty cutting the pins exactly perfectly. Too close to the mark and I get a sloppy fit.

I’ve tried allowing a little extra wood on the pins and using a fine rasp to get a good fit.

I’m using a Bad Axe dovetail saw.

Question.... is there a technique to cut the pins perfectly the first time to eliminate the “adjustment “?

 

[lwoirhaye]

I mark the pins from the tails with a piece of hacksaw blade ground to a claw shape.  The mark is consistent from part to part and it gets in places a pencil or knife won't go.  Once the marking is consistent then it's a matter of figuring out where exactly to start the saw.

Pins can be made a little tight and then the faces subtly scooped out with a chisel.  This helps the joint  go together and the corners will be tight. 

 

[Birdhunter]

Thanks. I’ve got a marking knife, but could see the pencil mark better than the knife slit. I’ll try it your way.

 

[aloysius]

As doubtful as it seems, the initial scoring cut produced by a finely sharpened marking knife provides an essential cutting guide for just about any follow-up saw cut.  Cutting just to one side of the "scratch" will prevent any surface micro-splintering of the already severed wood fibres.  This is why marking knives are so useful, & pencil marks so useless, in precision work.

If, like me, your fine detail vision is aged or in some other way challenged you could follow up your initial knife scores or cuts with a fine propelling pencil fitted with a soft lead (say 0.5 or 0.7mm & B or even 2B lead) as a vision aid.  A line of dark graphite along a marking knife's "trench" or furrow will provide clear vision of the cutline's edge, and also some essential dry-lube to assist the saw.

Slow, deliberate saw cuts, concentrating particularly on the appropriate angle should help too.  An extremely fine-kerfed saw with fine ripsaw sharpened teeth (=/> 16 PPI & near-vertical or at most 5-10 degree back angles &

 

[rvieceli]

[member=15289]Birdhunter[/member] as far as old eyes go, [eek] I've been having extremely good luck with this led light from Harbor Freight. It routinely goes for 19.99 with a coupon. Keep an eye out.
https://www.harborfreight.com/390-lumen-magnetic-slim-bar-folding-led-worklight-63958.html

It has a magnetic base and I keep it stuck to a piece of steel heavy enough to keep it in place and it really lights up what I'm working on.

Takes 18650 lithium batteries so extras are easy to come by.

ROn

 

[Michael Kellough]

Check out Derek Cohen’s apothecary chest thread. There you can see how he uses blue tape to make borders extremely clear.

 

[Birdhunter]

I use the blue tape trick when marking the baseline with my gauge. It really helps.

 

[derekcohen]

Hi Birdhunter

I use blue tape for more than just the baselines. My eyes are 68 years old. I hate wearing reading glasses. Old eyes suck! The blue tape makes it so much easier to see where the lines are, but even more than that, they provide a fence against which to saw.

My dovetails go together 99% saw-to-saw. Knowing where to saw is half the battle.

Here are pictorials from my website:

Through dovetails: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ThroughDovetails3.html

Half blind dovetails: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfBlindDovetailswithBlueTape.html

My other recommendation is to put the David Barron guide in the drawer and stop using it. Learning to do so will advance your skills a thousand fold faster than using the guide. You need to develop confidence in your ability to saw to a line, and that's all sawing dovetails is about.

You also want to avoid deliberate paring or filing of sockets or tails since this will introduce errors.

Practice makes perfect. Just do a few practice dovetails without guides each day. You will be amazed at your progress in a few weeks.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Birdhunter]

I’ll begin practicing without the guide (only on scrap though).

 

[Billedis]

[member=15289]Birdhunter[/member] have you checked out Rob Cosman videos?

 

[Birdhunter]

I think I’ve seen a bunch of his videos. All the Youtube guys are amazing. Perfect dovetails every time. I kind of like Dave Barron’s videos.

 

[Wooden Skye]

Watch Frank Klausz. He has a few good videos. 

 

[waho6o9]

Frank Klausz ^

Good call Wooden Skye

 

[RKA]

Lol!  I watched that video and marveled at how quickly he goes through the process.  Then he says he’s switching to a 3/4” chisel because it will go much faster!  I get the feeling you could blindfold him and he would still out dovetail me!

 

[lwoirhaye]

Frank is very skilled.  I think he's using a soft hardwood here so the cuts go fast.

The reason I cut the tails first is I don't have to follow a line through grain fibers.  To cut the pins all I have to be able to do is saw vertically.  Marking is easier his way it's true.  I just put the pin board in my vise and put the tail board on top.    The little claw shaped marking tool gets into narrow gaps between tails.

Frank also cuts them with a bow saw using a special blade with a 90 degree twist forged into it.  The blades are very hard to come by as they haven't been made in a long time.  Using it one cuts down with one part of the blade and turns the corner to cut out the waste with the twisted part.  The dovetails aren't as fine as chiseling but it's very fast.

 

[Birdhunter]

I watch a few Klausz videos last night while my wife was watching her soap operas.

He is an artist and he’s also an excellent showman. He’s entertaining without really trying.

His shop is a palace. Especially, compared to my chopped up basement areas.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
I cut the tails first using the Dave Barron magnetic guide and then pencil mark the pins using the L shaped Barron marking guide and the Barron magnetic guide.

I’ve had difficulty cutting the pins exactly perfectly. Too close to the mark and I get a sloppy fit.

Snip

Question.... is there a technique to cut the pins perfectly the first time to eliminate the “adjustment “?

I have not watched the whole video yet, but it seems to have covered the Barron's guide. Not sure if it is helpful to you:
http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/video-using-a-simple-jig-to-hand-cut-dovetail-joints/

 

[Birdhunter]

I’m consistently seeing a gap at the bottom of my dovetails. The tails and pins are snug with no gaps whatsoever. I’m using the blue tape and Veritas marking gauge to establish the baseline. When I rechecked the depth with the marking gauge, I can see the bottoms are a hair past the baseline. The pins and tails are flush when tapped together.

I think I am being careful chiseling out the waste so as to not bruise the baseline, but it’s obvious that I’m doing something wrong.

Should I set the marking gauge with less depth?

 

[CirclDigital]

When you transfer the tails to the pinboard you can allow for that baseline to be a hair over the thickness of your tailboard. When the joint is closed you plane the sides flush for a perfect fitting joint.

But first make sure that the clearance between the tails and pins is really flush. It’s easy to create a bit of a hump in the middle. Undercutting somewhat towards the middle is another “trick” to get a perfect joint.

 

[Birdhunter]

I’ll try that.