Dowelmax vs. Domino

Jonhilgen

Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
Messages
1,113
okay, so I'm relatively new to festool fever (I'm itching to buy another).  I just purchased a TS55 a few months ago and it is paying dividends like I couldn't believe.  That being said, with the limited amount of cash on hand, does anyone out there have both a Dowelmax and a Domino?  If so, could you please lay out pros and cons of each?
 
In the spirit of disclosure, I work for Festool.  I just wanted to remind everyone that we offer a 30-day money back, no questions asked guarantee if you're not fully satisfied with a product.  If you have doubts about whether a tool will meet our expectations, go give it a try.  There's virtually no risk.

I have to say that the Domino is probably my personal favorite tool because of how quick and simple it makes joinery.
 
Don't know if you have access to a Festool dealer. If possible, you need to try the Domino out on some scrap wood - even if you have to supply it yourself. It may do what you need or it may not. I own LOTS of Festool items. The Domino is by far the most frustrating tool I own of ANY brand. Really hoped to use it primarily for alignment when joining boards or edging on plywood but can not get decent results no matter what I try. Had far better results with my old biscuit joiner. Have read every thread and tried every trick but no improvement. Had REALLY hoped to get selected for one of the training classes so I could get some hands on training or assistance. Anyhow, it is a quality tool but you need to try one out first.
 
Peter, I'm sorry to hear that you're having trouble getting the expected results from your Domino.  I looked real quick and didn't see where you had posted anything requesting assistance from members.  Maybe it's worth starting a thread and giving us some photos of what's going on.  Also, please remember that you can always call our application specialists for assistance.  I'm certain we can help you get it figured out.  Regarding end-user training, most of the classes had overwhelming numbers of prospective attendees.  I think we can get your Domino issues figured out without you having to trek to Indiana.

I had mentioned a cabinet I made for my wife in a recent thread.  I had the whole thing assembled, not a drip of glue or a single fastener, using just Dominos.  The tight fit of Domino tenons allows me to dry fit everything together before I glue it up.  It actually sat there Domino together for a little while (well, almost a year) before I finally got around to painting it recently.  It's just a Holland male trait to do the first 90% of a project quickly and then the last 10% takes forever, maybe longer.
 
I have/had both.  I started with the Domino.  It delivered as promised - quick joints, easy to use and highly accurate, well, if you use it according to directions - see below.  However, as a hobbyist,  I felt it was simply too much money to have tied up in a tool that pretty much sat in the systainer.  I don't build cabinets for a living, or anything else that would make the Domino worth keeping.  I ended up selling it to buy some other things and have only missed having it occasionally.  I recently got the Dowelmax and have some projects lined up for it's use.  It's not as fast as the Domino, I think it will be more fool proof to use.  In that I mean one you have it set up and clamped, it simply won't move.  You constantly hear complaints from Domino users about it not being accurate and it usually comes from operator error.  I found I had to be very careful about keeping a tight grip and steady pressure on the workpiece or it could slip ever so slightly.  It appears the only way you can screw up the Dowelmax alignment is to not have it properly registered at the end of the board for most joints.  T-joints may pose special issues but so does the Domino.  No real winner either way there.  I haven't had too much use of the Dowelmax yet but what I have found so far is that it is an engineering marvel, very accurate and fun to use.  For the hobbyist, at 1/3rd the cost, without the time is money issue, it is well worth the investment.  I can't see buying a Domino again, the Dowelmax will do what I need for it to do. 
 
Shane Holland said:
In the spirit of disclosure, I work for Festool.  I just wanted to remind everyone that we offer a 30-day money back, no questions asked guarantee if you're not fully satisfied with a product.  If you have doubts about whether a tool will meet our expectations, go give it a try.

I don't know....maybe this is just wild speculation....but if a Festool tool does not meet your expectations, there just might be a pretty major problem.......
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[scared] DOH! You caught my carefully hidden fine print that the tool must meet our expectations, not yours.  Too funny! 

Obviously, I meant to say "if you have any doubts about whether a tool will meet YOUR expectations, go give it a try".

Thanks for catching my typo, Rick.  By the way, I think we need that Vac-Sys back now.  [poke]
 
I agree with HowardH about the Dowelmax being the right tool for a hobbiest.  I have used both, but the one that I own and really enjoy using is the Dowelmax.  With the Domino one can work faster, but I am (usually) not in a hurry.
 
If you can afford the Domino I suggest, like Shane, that you buy it and try it.  What I like most about the Domino is how fast I can make strong joints for my projects.  I only do woodworking for a hobby, and running two businesses does not give me the time I would like to spend in my shop.  Using Festool products, especially the Domino, allows me to make the most of the time I have for my hobby.  I had some minor registration problems with my Domino, but I sent it to Festool and had them tune it up and now it works perfect.  I don't have a DowelMax but I used to use some dowels  in my projects.  I got my Domino when it first came out and have not used a dowel joint since.
 
Hi PeterK,

I am probably biased because I use Dominos every day for most all of my custom fine furniture and would never want to go back to pre-Domino days.  I also have been paid on occasion to write "Getting the most from...." type manuals for Festool and others.  But, I never agree to start writing for any manufacturer until I first purchase their tools with my own money and use them long enough to determine that I think they are best of breed.  As I wrote in my manual for Festool covering the Domino machine when it first came out (available for free download from the Festool site, this chat group and from my web site) I find the Domino a true sea change machine.  I simply know of no better way to join two pieces of wood or a better way to solve a wide range of solid wood movement issues.  If you are frustrated by your Domino machine it would be helpful for you to post specifically what kinds of issues you are experiencing.  There are many on this chat group that may be able to help you overcome whatever those issues are.  Joining plywood is a "treat" all its own depending on the quality of the plywood, how many voids are present, the quality of the face plys and the consistency of the thickness.  It is seldom the thickness marked and two pieces purchased at the same time from the same pile may well not be the same thickness at all - especially if it is imported from that well known so called "developing economy" that just surpassed the US in the sale of new vehicles.  The best suggestion I can give to anyone using the Domino machine is to calibrate yours to all the alignment marks on the machine itself.  Mine came out of the box perfectly calibrated and has not required any recalibration since (that is thousand and thousands of domino mortises later).  Once you make sure your machine is calibrated then make sure to always register off the the top or good face of your two work pieces using the fence on the Domino machine.  Push down firmly when you register the fence on the top or good face of each work piece, plunge smoothly, and your domino mortises will be the same distance down from the good face on each piece within only a small fraction of a mm.  I normally cut one mortise on the same end of each work piece using the pins (yup, mine is one of the early ones into the US market so has the spring pins for registration side to side) at the narrow width setting.  I then cut all the rest of the mortises at the narrow setting on one piece via pencil marks made across both pieces when they were in perfect side to side alignment.  I use the intermediate setting for the mortises in the other piece.  At glue up time I place a piece of white butcher paper (the raw stuff, not the wax coated stuff) on my MFT table, invert the work pieces so the good or top edge is down against the butcher paper and lightly clamp both pieces to be flat on the MFT table top.  Only then do I draw the joint together tightly with clamps. At the same time I tighten the clamps that hold both workpieces flat on the MFT.  Once dry, the good or top surface that was held firmly down on the MFT is flat and even all the way across the joint.  The under side (the side facing up during glue up) will be off by the difference in the thickness of the two work pieces.  The only time my Lamello biscuit jointer ever sees the light of day any more is for cutting the mortises for the high quality Lamello hinges that I like so much.  Hope this helps and hope you feel comfortable posting specifically what kinds of problems you are experiencing.

Jerry

PeterK said:
Don't know if you have access to a Festool dealer. If possible, you need to try the Domino out on some scrap wood - even if you have to supply it yourself. It may do what you need or it may not. I own LOTS of Festool items. The Domino is by far the most frustrating tool I own of ANY brand. Really hoped to use it primarily for alignment when joining boards or edging on plywood but can not get decent results no matter what I try. Had far better results with my old biscuit joiner. Have read every thread and tried every trick but no improvement. Had REALLY hoped to get selected for one of the training classes so I could get some hands on training or assistance. Anyhow, it is a quality tool but you need to try one out first.
 
I got the Domino soon after it came out (wahoo! steel pins!) and am a hobbyist.  It is definitely a chunk of change, but it makes fast work out of so many things including so many things that aren't just joints.  Admittedly, you could do them other ways more slowly.  That's partly why the cost of entry is so high.

If you decide to do the 30-day trial, ignore the included manual and read Rick's supplemental manual.  His is a super set of the original (well, my original, dunno if they have updated it).  Have a project in mind like a cabinet base with face frame for the shop and do it with the tool to see how you like it.

In my case, I wasn't as lucky as Jerry and mine needed most of the calibrations described in the manual.  It makes you understand the tool better, though.  Now, if I could figure out the 1mm discrepancy on one side of my outriggers I'd be happy (for now, I do the accounting "minus 1")

One thing that %$@% me off with the Domino in the beginning were mortises that weren't parallel to the fence.  They leaned a little.  This might have been Peter's issue as well.  It also %$@% me off that it wasn't consistent about it.  What it turned out to be is that I have to set the fence height and lock it while the 90* fence is upright and locked; otherwise, there's some play and locking the height locks is canted.  So, to me, it's procedure: set fence height, tip fence to 90*.

For plywood, I usually Bowclamp ('sup, Craig!) it down to the assembly table then do the mortises.
 
I think the Achilles heel on the Domino is operator psychology.  It is so fast and so smooth that its very tempting to keep trying to go faster and faster, letting your attention to placement suffer.  At least that has happened to me.  I try to remember that like any tool, you need to be precise in measuring, marking, and positioning it correctly.
 
There's a handle on the fence that, when set to 90 degrees, should have ample pressure on it to prevent any rocking.  Obviously, the majority of the weight of the tool is going to be off of the workpiece.  So, it's important to keep pressure there to counterbalance that weight. 

Plunge at a modest rate, don't force it into the material.  As with any tool, let the tool do the work.
 
Accuracy?  My results with the Domino are not perfectly accurate but they are about as accurate as everything else I do so we get along fine.  That's what sandpaper, planes and scapers are for.  

Pro vs. hobbyist?  I use it for both and here's my conclusion.  It may not be worth it for some pros but every hobbyist should consider one.  It's just too much fun.  One of the very best parts is impressing your friends.  Plunge a mortise for them and put the joint together and listen for the ooo's and aaaa's.  I don't understand this thing about putting the domino in the systainer and never using it.  I look for projects where I can use it.  My problem is that I'm afraid I'm going to wear it out.  Oh well, different strokes.

Price?  I think the price of the Domino and the Dowel Max are pretty much representative of their respective value.  The Dowel Max costs about a third as much as a Domino and it has about a third of the value.  The Dowel Max is a superb tool, probably the best portable, small scale solution for making dowel holes.  The Domino is a way of life.  Like a table saw.

And consider this.  The Domino is a mortising machine that plunges a mortise to a maximum depth of 27mm and a minimum thickness of 4mm.  The machine has three built in mortise width settings which is a very handy thing.  But the width and thickness of the mortises you make are up to you.  With multiple plunges you can create mortises of unlimited width.   With multiple plunges you can create mortises of any thickness you desire.  This is loose tenon joinery, pure and simple.  You are NOT limited to making mortises that match the size of the commercially available tenons.  Festool offers a selection of tenons for the machine's narrowest width setting for each bit.  That's just a starting point.  You make your own tenons for other size mortises.  Just like people have done for ages.

I built a big case out of melamine to go around a fridge with storage above and on one side.  It was so large it had to be put together in the kitchen, no way to stand the assembled box given the 8' ceiling.  Assembled it weighed over 300 pounds.  We put it together and the 8x40mm dominoes held it firmly and squarely while the screws were put in.  That's not going to happen with biscuits, not in melamine.  And can you imagine the headache that dowels would have been?  All dowels have to be tight by definition, a loose dowel is useless.  Wrestling that big sucker together and every hole has to line up perfectly?  Single pieces weighing 75 pounds.  Limited assembly space?  We had to stand up an end.  Put the top and shelf on, stand up a middle piece and match it to the shelf and drop the top down on it.  Then more shelves then the other end.  Tight dowels?  With the inevitable wracking that occured I know we would have torn out some dowel joints.  I don't care how accurately the dowel holes are drilled it would have been a nightmare.  But with mortises plunged using the middle width setting it was a piece of cake.  Bang it together and tap it flush.  Then we attached the face frame with 5mm dominoes.  Like I said, it's becoming a way of life.

 
PeterK said:
Don't know if you have access to a Festool dealer. If possible, you need to try the Domino out on some scrap wood - even if you have to supply it yourself. It may do what you need or it may not. I own LOTS of Festool items. The Domino is by far the most frustrating tool I own of ANY brand. Really hoped to use it primarily for alignment when joining boards or edging on plywood but can not get decent results no matter what I try. Had far better results with my old biscuit joiner. Have read every thread and tried every trick but no improvement. Had REALLY hoped to get selected for one of the training classes so I could get some hands on training or assistance. Anyhow, it is a quality tool but you need to try one out first.

Peter - I sympathise and use my biscuit jointer much more than my Domino.  I've even been tempted by the Mafell double dowel machine.  But I am persevering with the Domino - when I am not in a hurry to get something out of the shop for a client - and think I am gradually getting to grips with it.  It is just not as easy and idiot proof as the Lamello biscuit jointer, but seeing the wonders everyone else does with it I ain't throwing in the towel (not the dowel  :) ) just yet.  Keep on with it and I am sure you will come to like it as I am (slowly) doing.
Good luck,
Richard
 
Hey guys,

Thanks for all of the info, it's a lot to digest.  That being said, I used to think that 500.00 was too much for a simple plunge saw!  Boy was I wrong.  The 55 has opened so many doors and has helped me make much more money in the last year I don't know how I lived without it.  I think it will take some time to get past the initial sticker shock of these tools, but I'm sure the more of these I buy, the less I'll worry about the price tag.  I think the domino will make life just a little easier... [big grin]
 
Jon:

I have both Dowelmax and Domino. I like them both. As an unrepentant accumulator of wood gadgets, and purely a hobbyist, I worry more about what I think will give me the most enjoyment in use provided I can spare the money. Dowelmax has proven a joy to use because it is one of the few gadgets I have tried that actually did everything it was advertised to do as easily as it was claimed to do it. I can only speak from personal experience when saying that Domino has delivered for me every bit as well on its promises. If you are a hobbyist, then I suggest going with whichever will give you the most joy while staying within your budget. If you are buying something to help you make a living, then I really have no basis to advise you.
 
One other nice thing about the Domino is that it's the most dust free tool I own.  Not the most important thing I admit but a nice thing anyway.  You can plunge away all day and there will be nothing to dust off or sweep up.  And the holes will be clear.  I will put large parts up on the pocket hole jig, larger than I should sometimes, just so I can have dust collection when making pocket holes.  Doweling creates over twice as much dust as pocket holes so that's something to consider.
 
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