Due Diligence; How to avoid being scammed

[Packard]

Recently, in this particular sub-forum, I’ve seen scam alerts about sellers.

What is your due diligence in buying from individuals in classified?

My take has always been (and infrequently “always”) to feel I know that party and that he posts frequently within the forums. 

It would be too easy to embarrass a frequent contributor at FOG, and I thought that would be sufficient deterrence against bad behavior. 

So how would you check out a seller bona fides?

Attn Moderator:  This might not be the best subforum for this post.  Please feel free to move it, if it is better served under another heading.

 

[Garet Jax]

I have been buying and selling online since before the internet was a thing.  I used newsgroups back before the turn of the century.

I have over 1000 feedbacks on ebay and I do not run a business..  This is just me buying and selling stuff:

I have bought cars online.  I have bought things with over $20,000 value online and had them shipped to me.

I have been scammed twice.  Once was from a guy who had money issues and ruined his feedback by taking money and not shipping items.  I was comfortable with that one because there wasn't much else I could have done.  I contacted local police and got a warrant issued for him that would only be served in MD if he happened to be pulled over for speeding.  He lived out of State and the amount wasn't enough for the police to pursue him.

The second time was here a few days ago.  The guy generated a driver's license and a selfie (I am assuming through AI).  I didn't check the veracity of them until after I sent the money.  I sent him $924 + I paid a 3% fee through PP F&F to use my Amex so the total was ~$950.  I have had my Amex a long time and have used it thousands of times for online payments.  On the very rare occasion where I send PP F&F, I always use my Amex behind to protect myself.

My tip off was when I requested a tracking number, he was all of a sudden in the hospital with internal bleeding  [unsure]
I pestered him over two days and he sent me to a freight company (for a domino) with a tracking number that was #11.  #10 was over 4 years ago and it was never delivered.  [mad]

I immediately checked the details on the license and couldn't find the person or the address. [eek]

I closed the issue in my mind by disputing the charge on my Amex.  Amex may return my money (and write it off) or they may not.  I have been angry with myself since for getting scammed.  I sent the fake ID to my family as a warning for what is possible today.

I am still working out in my head where I could have seen the scam before hand.  Their mistake was using a fake address and a fake name.  Had they used a real name and a real address, I am not sure I would have been able to figure it out ahead of time.

I am really second guessing using forums like this ever again for buying and selling.

 

[Garet Jax]

This is the second ID I was sent for an OF 2200 by woody21.  Again neither the address nor the person check out.

 

[ChuckM]

I only buy from a business or an individual who lists their items on a formal platform like eBay, Etsy, etc.

Never lost a cent through those transactions, as any non-shipments or problems with the items were eventually refunded by the platform or credit card.

I've never brought and never will buy anything from a forum marketplace. PayPal doesn't protect you if you make a payment to a friend, which is what these forum market sellers often suggest.

 

[ChuckM]

This is the second ID I was sent for an OF 2200 by woody21.  Again neither the address nor the person check out.

The guy on the license looks a lot older than the one, supposedly the seller, holding the ID to me.

 

[Muttley000]

I just refuse to use a non protected payment method. If they back away, not worth the risk.

 

[onocoffee]

This approach limits me but it's what I feel comfortable with. I limit myself to only dealing with people whom i can meet up with and transact in person. Definitely more inconvenient but I try to get a feel for the person by reviewing what I can find about them (like their profile on FB Marketplace) and our conversation online.

Luckily, I have not been scammed.

When it comes to used Festool, I've started to ask about purchase date, place of purchase, did they register the tool, do they have a receipt. At the beginning of October, I bought a TopRock from a guy in Pennsylvania. He was selling it for $100. Happened to be in York that weekend and he was willing to meet up with me and the transaction went very cleanly. Said he needed to generate some cash. Cool. All good.

The TopRock has rocked ever since. No issues. However, when I went to register the tool, I didn't have a receipt. So, I asked Customer Service about it and gave them the T and S numbers. They came back and said it had already been registered and that I needed the seller to contact them to transfer the registration to claim the warranty. Reached out to the guy and he's ghosted me. So, no warranty.

With the TS55 FEQ I just bought, I asked the seller about those details and everything was in order. We did our deal and I was able to register the tool.

 

[Garet Jax]

I just refuse to use a non protected payment method. If they back away, not worth the risk.

I only buy from a business or an individual who lists their items on a formal platform like eBay, Etsy, etc.

Never lost a cent through those transactions, as any non-shipments or problems with the items were eventually refunded by the platform or credit card.

I've never brought and never will buy anything from a forum marketplace. PayPal doesn't protect you if you make a payment to a friend, which is what these forum market sellers often suggest.

Don't kid yourself.  The protections offered by ebay and PP G&S aren't that good.  Sellers just need to prove they shipped you a box with tracking.  Folks have often been shipped rocks or something else of similar weight and they have little or no recourse.

 

[ChuckM]

I just refuse to use a non protected payment method. If they back away, not worth the risk.

I only buy from a business or an individual who lists their items on a formal platform like eBay, Etsy, etc.

Never lost a cent through those transactions, as any non-shipments or problems with the items were eventually refunded by the platform or credit card.

I've never brought and never will buy anything from a forum marketplace. PayPal doesn't protect you if you make a payment to a friend, which is what these forum market sellers often suggest.

Don't kid yourself.  The protections offered by ebay and PP G&S aren't that good.  Sellers just need to prove they shipped you a box with tracking.  Folks have often been shipped rocks or something else of similar weight and they have little or no recourse.

The user feedback of a seller on eBay and Esty is another line of protection. Never deal with someone who doesn't have a "better than good" record.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

This is the second ID I was sent for an OF 2200 by woody21.  Again neither the address nor the person check out.

Never trust anyone who looks like he could be a member of the Kim family in North Korea.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have had a couple of very positive transactions with members here.
The first was the most un-used used MFK700 in the world. They guy sent it to me totally on trust, saying pay me if you like it, send it back if you don't. I sent him a money order through the Post Office, that afternoon.
The second was the import of the black-market TS60, with some character that I have never met either  [big grin] ^^^

 

[peter halle]

I have purchased a few things here.  In each case it was from someone who was established here and in each case the transaction went well.

I will NEVER contemplate purchasing anything from someone who just uses this site's classified area as a sales channel only. 

I have been scammed on Facebook marketplace once when someone hacked a friend of my wife's account.  The prices were too good to be true and I stupidly fell for it to a tune of $1400.  Lesson learned expensively.

Peter

 

[onocoffee]

The second was the import of the black-market TS60, with some character that I have never met either  [big grin] ^^^

Speaking of Black Market TS60 (not that it really matters now that I got my TS55), but I was wondering if one could order the Plug-It outlet on the TS60 from a region that offers it and then retrofit a US TS60 with it?

 

[PaulMarcel]

Only online/forum scam I got taken with isn't as bad as those listed here. Someone on FOG with a reasonable number of posts was selling a Bridge City square I wanted. It had lots of photos and a decent price. When I got it, it was stamped as a blem. It wasn't a very good deal at all for a blem and I wouldn't have wanted it. Wondered how I missed the mark in the photos. There was one photo dead on the end with the stamp but as luck would have it, there was a flash over it. More I looked, more the flash looked Photoshopped. Again, not horrible.

For awhile, Instagram did a marketplace with vendors. I got taken for $600 with that. They soon stopped that program as a lot of people complained the storefronts were just fronts. There was no vetting like Instagram claimed.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

I was wondering if one could order the Plug-It outlet on the TS60 from a region that offers it and then retrofit a US TS60 with it?

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] is the forum’s resident expert on this topic  [wink]

 

[hdv]

Well, it wasn't here and it wasn't anything to do with woodworking. But here's my story of being scammed.

I bought a robomower about 7 years ago for a price that seemed reasonable. Not too much off compared to regular prices at the time. I did check the website and online reviews. Nothing out of the ordinary popped up. So, I ordered one and waited for it to be delivered. I think you can guess where this story is going to... yep, nothing came. I mailed them. No answer.

I did some more digging, but this time took more time. And I used my somewhat OK skillset as a hacker (I had been giving classes on IT security for years). And whatdayathink? It turned out there was something fishy about the whole setup after all. But during my "investigation" I also managed to drag up some data on who was behind it (part skill, but also just plain luck and dumb mistakes by them). I confronted them with it and told them I knew the police wouldn't normally put in too much time with cases like these and that they probably counted on that. But that I was familiar enough with the process to know exactly what to do to make the police pay more attention. And pointed out to them that I apparently knew at least enough to get their personal information. It seems that was enough, because a few days later the machine was delivered. But I still couldn't use it. That is because Husqvarna requires a code to activate their mowers. And I didn't have that one. Luckily a local dealership was willing to help in exchange for the information on the shop that was tarnishing their reputation. A few days later the shop disappeared. I don't know if that was just coincidence or not.

The moral of this story: *it is not* that you need to "hack" your way 'til you get what you want. But, if someone like me can be fooled, then anyone can (sorry for coming over as arrogant, but I really feel that is the way it is). Like others suggested above: do your due diligence by checking the credibility of the seller and the goods to be sold. And only do payments through a party that offers insurance or something equivalent to it. Even doing all that still might get you caught. Just be vigilant and accept there's a risk to buying from sellers you don't know up front. That's just the world as it is today.

 

[ChuckM]

In cases like yours (before the online store disappeared), I'd assume the credit card would cover the loss (if it was used as the payment method).

So far, I've been able to receive refunds directly from the online marketers such as Amazon or Walmart online for all claims or disputes about product issues (not working or working poorly), without going through my credit card issuer.

 

[Packard]

I have had Visa, MasterCard and AMEX for many years.  By far, AMEX has my back on purchases.  And whenever possible, I use AMEX.

I avoid PayPal (which I do not have.)

A while back, I bought something online (I don’t remember what or who was involved).  I paid by AMEX, which the vendor used to purchase PayPal and pay themselves with the PayPal.

I do remember feeling a little uneasy about that transaction, but I did not have any issues. 

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I was wondering if one could order the Plug-It outlet on the TS60 from a region that offers it and then retrofit a US TS60 with it?

[member=58857]Crazyraceguy[/member] is the forum’s resident expert on this topic  [wink]

In a word, no.
Longer explanation: The only way to get one with a Plug-It that has been factory installed is a 240v unit.
The North American 120v and UK 110v are both equipped with permanent cables.
The only way to get Plug-It on one of those is to do it yourself. This will very likely void your warranty, so proceed with caution. The part is available through the usual spare parts places or directly from Festool EKat. The same part fits both TS55 and TS75
Voiding the warranty of such an expensive item stops most people immediately. To my knowledge, only a couple of us have done it. Mine has been converted for over a year and a half now, since a few days after receiving it. It has been used daily, in a cabinet shop, all that time. Just last week, I filled an entire CT-15 bag, in less than a day. (Dozens of 8' rip cuts 1 5/8" deep in Fir)

 

[sancho57]

1st I usually by from respected dealers or from:

2nd; People I know personally,

3rd : If I were to buy from someone here, It would be someone who is a poster here, there are some posters who names I recognize that do frequently sell things.

4th: if it to good to be true then it is. Meaning if something is being sold cheap under market then it's a scam.

5th: which is similar to #4; I live by the adage is that there is no such thing as a "good deal" meaning something is being sold way under market.

6th which is like the 5th:  WC Fields said you cant cheat a honest man. You can intuitively  tell if the seller is being honest or not. If he's honest he will sell something for a honest price.

Are you catching the theme here?

When I stand by those rules , Ive never been ripped off by scammers.