Dust Collection/Jointer Questions

[travisj]

I have a small Rockler Dust Right wall hanging dust collector that I had purchased about a decade ago.  I use it with the expandable 4" Dust Right hose and it works fine with the router table, bandsaw, table saw, and for cleaning up the shop floor (I was surprised about the ease of using a 4" hose and tube).  I have not tried it with my benchtop thickness plane (I use that outdoors and sweep up the remains).  I am looking at treating myself to a jointer for my birthday and I don't think my little dust collector will keep up.  So now I am thinking of getting a jointer and a new dust collector.  I do not know anyone who runs DC and I have asked at the various retailers for recommendations, but they seem to push me in a direction that serves their interests, not mine. To that end, I am hoping that I can glean some knowledge off of the FOG's collective experience.

1.  Is there a rule of thumb for the CFM rating as far as blast gates, ductwork, or machines are concerned?

2.  I have a 220 outlet in the garage.  All of my tools are 120V, the new jointer will be a 6" 120v as well.  Would a 220 DC give me more options as far as larger motor = higher CFM?

3.  Does anyone have any recommendations for ductwork/blast gate material?  Through my internet travels over the years, I have seen metal, PVC, ABS, and the DC tubing being used.  I would assume metal is preferable for static, but unsure.

4.  Does anyone have any recommendations for actual dust collectors?  I am working out of 1 stall of a 3 car garage so large cyclones and the like will not be an option at the moment.  I am leaning to something "mobile" with a single filter bag/canister style machine.

5.  Does anyone have any experience with the Shop Fox brand of machines?  The jointer I have loosely been looking at is a 6" model that a local dealer is selling for $630.  I haven't been able to find a lot of information online about these machines (the 8" seems to be more popular), but the price is right and it offers a two year warranty.  I can say the fit and finish seems a little better than the Grizzly machines I have seen in the past.

Thank you all in advance

 

[KRKWW]

Hello Travis,
I own a 2 hp Onieda stationary cyclone and love it. I understand that may not be a good option for you because of space considerations. But such a unit can be installed outside as long as you have makeup air in your shop and cover it. So just a thought there... But in any case I would recommend you take a look at the Onieda collection because they have many sizes to choose from and since all they do is dust collection, they do it well. I concur with your observation that metal piping is best just make sure it is at least 26 ga. to ensure it does not collapse. The Onieda web site is full of helpful information about piping and they can also help you with CFM requirements for your particular tools and layout. Generally speaking, the less flexible ducting you have in a run, the better suction you will have.

Keep us posted on your progress and decision.
Kevin

 

[mark60]

I've got Grizzly's version on the Rockler dust collector and use it with my jointer and planer. I do run it through a separator I made with the kit from Rockler and a 30 gallon fiber drum. Overall I've been pleased with it.

 

[rst]

Ditto on Oneida...a consideration is that Oneida's collectors are made to meet industrial fire and safety standards.  They have aluminum, non-sparking rotors, something that most of the price range competition do not.

 

[Cheese]

[member=53578]travisj[/member]
I purchased a Jet dust collector with canister filtration about 12 years ago and haven't had a problem. My issue is also foot print size of the equipment. I needed something small that would work well with a table saw, jointer and planer. It was also pretty inexpensive compared to a full sized cyclone unit.

I believe going from 110V to 220V only yields an increase of 100-150 cfm on a small sized dust collector.

Stick with metal blast gates as they are usually constructed more robustly than plastic units and you can take advantage of their grounding capabilities. Also, stick with metal duct especially if it's a long run. Read some where that using 10' of vinyl corrugated flex duct is the equivalent of using 20' of metal duct. There's a significant amount of line loss using corrugated duct. Use the corrugated duct for machine drops from the main trunk to individual tools.

I added a remote control unit to the Jet DC and would highly recommend that option. I chose the Long Ranger package and am very happy with it. I think it has a range of around 50'. Some of the newer DC systems offer built in remote control as an option.

Also worth considering is that some of the metal blast gates have a small micro switch already attached to them so if you want to, you can run wires back to a control hub and have the opening & closing of the blast gate turn the DC on & off. More convenient than fumbling around with a remote control.

FWIW, I've also used the internal spring helix inside the vinyl corrugated duct to maintain conductivity between all tools rather than using external wire wrap, it's just a tidier approach.

 

[JimD]

I tried a 1hp DC on my Inca 8 5/8 jointer planner and it couldn't keep up if I was jointing the face of a wide board.  I would go with a 2hp unit.  I plan to sell my little 1hp and just use a shop vac for now but may eventually put in a DC.  If I did it today, it would be a Harbor Freight 2hp with an Onieda (sp?) super dust deputy.  You should be able to google up and example of this setup.  I plan to discharge outside partially because I hate cleaning filters.  If you can't do that, a cartridge filter is what I would use.  Please do not use a bag unless it is a really good one.  The cheaper bags blow all the fine dust up where you will breathe it.  I've done it and I won't again.  Cartridges are better than even good bags in my experience.  Even though the HF is cheap (often available well under $200) buy the time you get the cyclone and cartridge on it, you'll have around $500-600 in it.  So if you can find a unit close to that it probably makes sense to get it.  A 2hp is about the biggest you can run on 110V.  The cyclone is a must from my point of view because I just don't like cleaning filters.  Again, I've done it without and I didn't like the consequences.  A thein separator helps some but doesn't get the finer dust a cyclone will help with.

 

[travisj]

Thank you all for your input.  After your suggestions I had to do a little research and wound up down a pretty deep rabbit hole.

The Oneida systems look interesting.  I have not yet called and spoken with them (I intend to), I am intrigued by the 1.5HP Mini Gorilla
http://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=XXPM010100H
Pros:  36x30 footprint, plug and play, 120V, 2-stage collection
Cons:  Cost (about $1150 delivered)

I had looked at the Jet model years ago and I liked it then (prior to the Vortex redesign).  Same pros as the Oneida (minus the 2-stage).

The Harbor Freight combination was the most intriguing and where I spent most of my "research".  Essentially, with this option, a two stage collector could be had for about $600.  The added benefit is that since the machine will be disassembled, the mounting options are limitless.  I found several interesting wall mount variations that only would use the floor space of the collection bin (garbage can or drum).  The biggest downside is that this would be a project that would eat into the limited shop time I currently have. 

I appreciate all of the feedback and I will continue to attempt to figure out my solution, but it will take me some time.  I am going to try to refine my organization and tool layout first. 

 

[Cheese]

Hey [member=53578]travisj[/member]
Let us know what you finally decide on...always interested in the various options out there.

 

[ben_r_]

Definitely give Oneida a good look. They are very well known in the wood industry. I just placed an order for their V-3000 3HP as my end game dust collector for a long while along with a full ducting setup for my garage. Pricey but it should handle all my needs and more as my shop grows over time.

 

[nako]

2-stage cyclone style dust collection is the next level of premium dust collection for a small shop.  go with 6" duct runs if you can and I went metal spiral duct, but lots of ppl also like plastic drain pipe.  Take a look at the Clear Vue site for their cyclone kits.  you will see that level of dust collection is in the 240v range.  there will likely still be a link to the Bill Pentz research treatise if you care to fall down the cyclone dust collection research rabbit hole! 

 

[MrGinCT]

I went with the Oneida V3000, 3hp cyclone type DC with hepa filter.  I've had some issues with my DC but Oneida has great customer service - and even gave me their $150 dust level sensor for the drum and their $40 liner for the inside of the drum to compensate me for the problems that I had.  Worth while upgrades that I would have purchased anyway, but free is much better.
Something to consider is that if your jointer has the straight knives instead of a Byrd Shelix segmented cutter head, that the shavings from face planning wood will create very large amounts of shavings that will tend to clog up your piping.  I switched out the straight knives for the Byrd Shelix segmented cutter head ($485) and it made a world of difference for my dust collection as the segmented head produces small shavings instead of shavings the width of whatever you are face planning.
The spiral pipe and associated fittings do a fantastic job, but the overall cost to pipe your system can easily match the cost of the Oneida V3000 system, but I would stay away from plastic piping even though metal piping costs more to install.

 

[grbmds]

For me, the only two important issues with dust collection is that it handles the tools it's meant for and that the filtering is the best available so the fine dust isn't put back into the air. I replaced my cyclone collector about a year ago and looked at almost every possible manufacturer, including Oneida, Jet, Laguna, etc. All dust collectors are not created equal. I feel that Oneida consistently produces the best, most efficient, and best filtering collectors. Their HEPA filters are the best, based on percent of the smallest particles collected. If you have the space and can install at least one central collection duct with one or two drops to your machines, I'd suggest considering one of the Oneida V Series; 1.5 HP if you don't have 220V service in your shop. If not,  the Mini-Gorilla is a great collector also, but the length of the collection hose must be 10' or less and is meant to be moved from one machine to the other as needed. Call and ask Oneida for advice. Provide them good info about what you will use it for and how and they will give you their options that will work for you. If you need help with designing any ductwork, they will help with that also. I have ductwork installed in my shop that is over 15 years old and it's all like it was when I installed it. I've even turned on the system with all the gates closed by mistake several times with no ill effects on the ducting. While Oneida will certainly try to sell you a higher end machine, they will also give you good advice about whether one of their lower cost collectors will work for your needs. Your lungs and respiratory system are important, so don't sacrifice dust collection efficiency for a lower cost. It's not worth it.

 

[ladilday]

A good source of unbiased information on dust collection is Bill Pentz's website.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Hey Travis,
I have a Delta DJ20 8 inch jointer that gets a real workout on most projects, as I always start with rough lumber.  I run an Oneida 2HP cyclone with metal duct work and blast gates.  There has never been a problem with the DC keeping up with the jointer.  As a matter of fact, I always leave the gate to the jointer open even when I'm running other machines (table saw, planer, bandsaw, router table). 

The thing to remember about a cycle is that its footprint can be quite small, as the contraption is mostly vertical.  I have mine wall mounted in a corner of the shop.  Just be sure you leave access to the filters and the collection drum/bag.

The comment about makeup air is spot on.  If you have any gas appliances in your shop, you probably have vents that will provide ample makeup.  Otherwise a partially open window or garage door may be needed.  Or maybe install a new, closeable vent to the outside.

As far a ductwork goes, I am happy with mine, but there are religious wars going on about metal vs pvc which I am not going to step into.  One thing everybody agrees on though: avoid sharp corners and make any plastic hose runs short.

I strongly agree with the good words about Oneida customer service, they will spend the time to answer your questions fully.

 

[travisj]

I thank you all for your input on this.  On a whim, I took my daughters to Harbor Freight (they enjoy going to "tool stores" with me, Rockler is their favorite, but I digress) to take a look at their dust collector that I have researched the modifications on.  The box they had sitting next to the display was damaged with a flap hanging loose and part of the base visible.  For the heck of it, I asked how much for the "damaged" unit and I wound up buying their 2HP version for $100.  We then ran to Menard's and picked up the Super Dust Deputy on their 11% off sale.  I also ordered a MERV15 .5 micron canister filter for it, which was the most expensive piece of the puzzle.  I will combine and modify all of this into a wall mounted cyclone. 

We are looking at moving in about a year's time into my parents' house as they are building their retirement home up north.  If I am not happy with my contraption, it will be placed into my dad's new woodshop up at their lake place and I will re-evaluate my situation as I move into his current shop spaces.  All said, at this point I am into it for $450. 

Currently our garage (my workspace) is the equivalent of 100# in a 5# bag.  I hope to begin a massive decluttering and organization binge this weekend after which I will finalize my machine layout and begin this DC project.  I will try to take a lot of pictures throughout the process and create a "build" thread as all of my work surfaces will be replaced.  I have enjoyed and gotten a lot of inspiration from the member project posts here on the FOG and would like to contribute my own meager ideas/creations to hopefully inspire others or at the least show them what not to do. 

Thanks again.