Dust Collector Advice

[Birdhunter]

My young friend has gotten totally infected by the woodworking bug. He is limited in both budget and space. He works out of 1/2 of a 2 car garage.

He has outgrown a shop vac and needs a real dust collector. His contractor table saw and his router table need a higher volume & capacity dust removal.

Any recommendations?

 

[SittingElf]

On a limited budget, I'd take a look at Grizzly's offerings. It's what I started with, and other than the hassle of changing or emptying the bags, they work pretty well.  (I'm now using a 3HP JDS Cyclone... but MUCH more expensive than what I started with)

Some folks on extreme budgets have been happy with Harbor Freight DC units as well.

Cheers,
Frank

 

[Greg M]

Lots of info on upgrading a Harbor Freight 2hp dust collector.  You can use a 20% off coupon for it.  Search on web and print it out.

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-industrial-5-micron-dust-collector-97869.html

Don't use the 5 micron bag.  buy a canister filter for it.

http://wynnenv.com/products-page/woodworking-filter-pricing/35a274nano-cartridge-kit/

I then changed the hose that goes between the blower and the filter with several metal HVAC 90's.  Make sure you seal all of the joints on the 90's.  I also ran 5" metal pipe to my table saw reducing it right before connecting it to the TS.  Make sure you seal all seams.  This greatly increased the air flow.

Now a cheaper way to go is to buy the HF dust collector and a large fan.  Use the dust collector to catch the dust larger than 5 micron and the fan to blow the smaller dust out of the garage.  Dust collection is usually the last thing that we think about but it should be the first thing.  Have him look at these 2 sites:

This one is the doom and gloom site but is full of correct info that will put a healthy fear into him about how serious a problem fine dust is.
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/staticcalc_faqs.cfm#AirFlowRequirements

This site is a more subdued approach to dust collection based on the info from the above site.

http://home.earthlink.net/~dbhost/dustcollection.html

A modified HF DC saves money, is highly praised, and helps to save your future health.

 

[teocaf]

I would stay away from any and all Harbor Freight stuff. And especially for something as essential as dust collection.  Even with the coupon it is no bargain.  I would tell your friend to proactively search out the classifieds locally and online and even post "want to buy" ads and try to get something of better quality from someone who is upgrading etc.  Just have in mind at the start what HP and micron size, etc so you can sift through the info with some parameters from the outset.

 

[Greg M]

I would stay away from any and all Harbor Freight stuff. And especially for something as essential as dust collection.  Even with the coupon it is no bargain.

This statement right here shows a lack of information and knowledge.  A modified HF DC is very highly (and widely) praised from all who have taken the time to actually look into them and use them. 

I doubt he even read my post past the words Harbor Freight.  If he had he should have noticed the true HEPA filter being added to the system, the sealing of joints, and the replacement of the ribbed hose with metal pipe.  With these mods it will outperform any of the store bought units (bag filtered or canister filtered) from any manufacturer at a much cheaper price.  The main reason is because the filter is a true HEPA filter that actually filters what it says it will filter right out of the box and filters better than advertised with use.  Most other filters are sold claiming a certain micron size filtered after seasoning.  This means that after the filter is used it will begin to approach it's advertised filtering ability.

While Harbor Freight does sell a lot of disposable tools (which is an advantage sometimes) they do have some good tools at a really good price.  The dust collector is one of their best bargains.  I've got several other tools from them that get the job done as well as the more expensive options from other manufacturers.  I've also got tools from Festool, Woodpeckers, Incra, SawStop and many others.  I prefer getting the best tool for the job based on performance, not price.  Just because something costs more doesn't mean it's better.  If a tool from Harbor Freight will work just as well or better after a modification then it's just foolish to spend money that I don't need too.

Also keep in mind that a 1 person shop uses 1 tool at a time.  Therefore, there is no need to get a powerful dust collector if your duct is installed decent or if it's connected to the tool with a short flexible hose.  If he chooses the short flexible hose I would suggest using a 5" hose and reduce at the saw if he can afford it.  Wynn sells the hoses as well as the filter.  Much less resistance then a 4" flexible hose.

If money is really tight then get the HF DC and the filter.  Seal any leaking joints and use the hose that comes with the DC.  That will work very well for a single. 

NEVER use a bag filter no matter what the manufacturer claims.  They create more problems then they solve.  BTW, when it comes to filtration, don't believe anything any manufacturer of dust collectors tells you unless they supply you with the filter test results to prove what they claim.  Be safe and buy a filter from Wynn.

 

[teocaf]

you buy your HF unit with your precious little coupon.  you buy the hvac tubing.  you buy the canister conversion kit.  you read the thousands of HF reviews to find the one tenth of one percent of people that got lucky with the brand so you can find useful hackable ideas to make your HF on par with a real tool. 

i say that at the end of all this, you're in the same time/money/value ballpark as a better quality unit that you buy used that has all the stuff already.

even though you've already set up in the corner of your shop a little altar to the harbor freight gods to bestow on you the favor of another fifteen minutes of trouble-free woodworking, you find that you still hold your breath every time you turn your HF unit on, and actually welcome the overly loud noise that their motors are known for.  if all else fails, you can follow that other little gem of advice that's been offered and "get a large fan and blow all the fine dust out your shop door".

and when it's time to sell and upgrade, i have a feeling that the HF unit, conversion and all will sell for pennies, that is if it still runs, while the better quality used unit will bring in close to what you laid out for it.

even though this post is a bit generalized and with a bit of humor thrown in for good measure, it is meant to convey a rather important larger truth.  take it from those who have been repeatedly burned by the cheapest of the cheap and do a true accounting of what it takes to have a dependable and necessary tool such as a dust collector in your shop.

and for those who go to such great lengths to defend HF, to clarify, to explain, to re-explain etc, etc.--I take no offense and have no quarrel with them.  I find the unintended humor in such posts a rather fun way to start a monday morning after a weekend of no FOG.

 

[thedude306]

I don't think the dude is defending HF.  I think he is defending the DC that HF sells.  It's a cheap alternative once you get a filter on it??  DC isn't rocket science that takes $$$ to do well.  It's CFM and filter.  The rest is just aesthetics.  Even if the HF DC is under rated by 20% it's still going to do the job for under $400 with the new filter.

That's some of the best money a DIY guy can spend in his shop.

Your mileage may vary. 

 

[Greg M]

I'm not interested in much of what HF sells but they do have some good tools.

I've read a lot of reviews from woodworkers on woodworking sites about the HF DC and anyone interested in the truth can do the same. 

A Grizzly 2hp DC with a canister filter only filters down to 1 micron leaving the most harmful of dust being blown into the air that you're breathing.  That dangerous machine will run $529 shipped.  Why dangerous?  It filters all of the particles that can be seen making you think that you're safe but it is filling your air with the particles you can't see, the ones that get trapped in your lungs and do the real damage because your body has a very difficult time getting rid of them.  Read Bill's site.

A modified HF will filter down to .3 microns which is true HEPA filtration and the total cost will be around $400.  With the Grizzly you'll have to add another $200 to the $529 price to get the same level of filtration.

For someone that has the money to spend then by all means get something expensive but make sure to read the specs and look at the testing results to make sure that the filter is performing like they claim, most don't.  You'll find that the filter you get on most DC's will need to be upgraded.

For someone that can't spend that much the modified HF DC will give you excellent filtration at a much lower price point.

Now remember that any dust collector will only filter the air that passes through it.  That means that you've got to have some kind of dust collection on top as well as underneath the table saw.

I'll take some pictures of how I did it and post them.  Not that mine is the best solution but it might help someone get some ideas on how to make their shop a little more healthy.

 

[rljatl]

I'm not interested in much of what HF sells but they do have some good tools.

I've read a lot of reviews from woodworkers on woodworking sites about the HF DC and anyone interested in the truth can do the same. 

A Grizzly 2hp DC with a canister filter only filters down to 1 micron leaving the most harmful of dust being blown into the air that you're breathing.  That dangerous machine will run $529 shipped.  Why dangerous?  It filters all of the particles that can be seen making you think that you're safe but it is filling your air with the particles you can't see, the ones that get trapped in your lungs and do the real damage because your body has a very difficult time getting rid of them.  Read Bill's site.

A modified HF will filter down to .3 microns which is true HEPA filtration and the total cost will be around $400.  With the Grizzly you'll have to add another $200 to the $529 price to get the same level of filtration.

For someone that has the money to spend then by all means get something expensive but make sure to read the specs and look at the testing results to make sure that the filter is performing like they claim, most don't.  You'll find that the filter you get on most DC's will need to be upgraded.

For someone that can't spend that much the modified HF DC will give you excellent filtration at a much lower price point.

Now remember that any dust collector will only filter the air that passes through it.  That means that you've got to have some kind of dust collection on top as well as underneath the table saw.

I'll take some pictures of how I did it and post them.  Not that mine is the best solution but it might help someone get some ideas on how to make their shop a little more healthy.

I'd like to see pictures of your setup. 

 

[Birdhunter]

Thanks for all the input. I passed it on to my friend along with a suggestion to look at Oneida's small unit.

 

[Greg M]

I've got my router table and table saw piped separately to my dust collector where I manually swap the lines depending on which machine I'm using.  Air goes through a super dust deputy and then to the DC.  One of the hats I have is as a licensed HVAC business so I used high quality mastic tape to seal all the joints.
[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

I'm using a SawStop with the overhead collection.  SawStop's setup has you tying into the dust collection that connects to the base of the saw for under table dust collection.  I found that this decreased the under table collection and provided very little collection on top.  Instead I modified a hose and connected the top collection to my CT36 AC vac with a HEPA filter installed in it.  I turn it to a little less than half power because at full power it tends to suck in small pieces of wood which get stuck in the plastic SawStop hood over the blade.  I get very little dust from the SawStop now and no fine dust.
[attachimg=3]

I ran a 5" pipe and reduced to 4" at the saw
[attachimg=4]

I ran a switch so that I could turn the DC on at the table saw.  I also use to use a sled for crosscuts but it defeated the all of the dust collection so I got an Incra 1000HD so that I could cross cut with the dust collection in place.
[attachimg=5]

BTW, if you noticed an extension cord hanging from the SawStop overhead arm it's connected to the CT36.  I can put the CT in auto and connect a modified hose to the end of the SawStop overhead arm and run any of my Festool tools on the outfeed table for the SawStop.

 

[teocaf]

definitely not even close to a $400 budget as was suggested.  even taking out some of those top-of-the-line options, i would think that the cost of the high quality tape alone would be substantial.

it still escapes me why one would choose as the heart of the system a new electrical component from harbor freight as opposed to a used, better quality and capacity unit for basically the same price--a quick scan through the woodworking classifieds seems to confirm this for me.

however, all that aside, it is a beautiful setup.  thanks for taking the time to post it.  great source info on the filters earlier as well.

 

[Greg M]

definitely not even close to a $400 budget as was suggested.  even taking out some of those top-of-the-line options, i would think that the cost of the high quality tape alone would be substantial.

it still escapes me why one would choose as the heart of the system a new electrical component from harbor freight as opposed to a used, better quality and capacity unit for basically the same price--a quick scan through the woodworking classifieds seems to confirm this for me.

however, all that aside, it is a beautiful setup.  thanks for taking the time to post it.  great source info on the filters earlier as well.

No, my setup is now more than $400 because I've added to it as I've been able to.  My initial setup was less than $400 and was better than anything you can get for under $750.  Initially, I had the HF DC with the replacement filter and a flexible hose and that setup was less than $400.  Because of the short hose I didn't need to improve the efficiency of the airflow until I made the runs longer. 

The tape I used costs me $30 a roll and I used almost 1 roll.

My HF dust collector has been running without even a hint of a problem for just over 3 years now.  I've not found any used setups that could filter the air reliably down to .5 microns for anywhere near $400.

For those that will read this thread in the future, you need to read through Bill Pentz's site on the hazards of dust in the shop.

For those that can't afford to be a tool snob a modified HF DC can improve your shop's healthiness along with saving you some money.  An inexpensive system that works is far better than having nothing.

 

[semenza]

Please can the personal and snippy remarks.

Seth

 

[Vondawg]

Thank you