Dust extractors - HSE guidance and do I really need to get rid of my midi's

[Dangermouse]

The last time HSE came on a site I was on, they said there were no rules (at that time) regarding the emptying of the machine as long as you minimize the dust cloud when you empty it,
It comes supplies with one disposable bin liner which makes it easier to empty, I personally use numatic hepa bags which fit inside a "Charles" Hoover, if I'm doing a lot of sanding I wait till their full before throwing them away, if I'm using my router or planer I slit the bag along the bottom and I've made a little clamp to reseal the bag, saves going through too many,

 

[Samtor]

Don't know about the festool vacs. On some vacs have say a light which comes on when the airflow drops off because either the bag is full or the hose is blocked.

Yes, my Numatics have that and they will power off if the motor gets too hot.

I find the best way is to get to know the noise your extractor(s) make and know when it is straining. Also, it is worth checking the bag at regular intervals.

Peter

Hi Peter,
I have the Fein Turbo I and there is no indicator. By checking the bag, do you mean to roughly feel whether it's half full or something like that? I thought (maybe wrongly) that with all the fine dust, the bag needs to be changed something like after 24 hours of usage? I am imagining that 24 hours of use would fill up at least half a bag and choke up the vacuum?
Thakns.

 

[Stone Message]

No Festool and Numatic bags are really well made.

I only change bags when...

    - they are almost full
    - the machine is labouring
    - after 1 year regardless of the above

I always check the filters when inspecting or changing a bag. During these inspections I vacuum off the filter with one of the other machines.

Peter

 

[Jak147]

So do festool make a midi that is class M? The ctm26 is a beast in comparison and would be out of place on small kitchen installs and the like

 

[festivus]

Phil - please could you clarify:

I have a Midi (before they upgraded motor).

As I understand it, in terms of dust filtration there is no difference between L and M rated vacs. Just that the M vacs have those additional warning features - is that correct?

Thanks.

 

[Sweet]

Hi Dan

I've been hearing rumours regarding extraction and the hse for quite a while now but haven't looked at an details

Was thinking of you the other day, as I have been working right near that job you were doing in Englefield green Windsor. How did it turn out ? Have you finished yet ?

Hi Chris,

Yep the job is all finished now, The gates were the last thing to go in and they were delivered to site a few weeks back. I'll post some pics when I get chance. I'm on a job in Central London now, more restoration work. Sliding sash windows, Eight panel doors etc.

Hows things with you?

Back to the thread,

Since my original post I've done some more research and it appears our beloved HSE (Health and Safety executive for those that don't know) were pushing for 'H rated' extractors to be mandatory in the UK when working with wood dust but this was found to be unworkable for a variety of reasons.

My understanding of the L,M and H ratings is in terms of risk:

L-Low
M-Medium
H-High

Wood dust and dust from related products, i.e. MDF are considered to be of Medium risk.

Ive been using Festool products since 2003 (I think?) first things I bought were a CTL 22 and Trion jigsaw. At the time I think I was in the minority of carpenters/joiners bothering with extraction. I always felt quite smug that I had limited clean up at the end of the day and got follow on work for the care and attention that I paid to site cleanliness and respect for working in peoples homes. My clients and I were sold on "dust free" working.

However, I don't recall any dealer (up until very recently) suggesting or informing me that in the wood industry we should only be using "M" rated extractors!

Between the Joiners shop and site teams we've got 12 Festool vacs, only one is "M" rated and that's the one for the Planex. Without an alternative I'm extremely reluctant to give up my Midi. Its the first tool in and out of the van!!

D  :'(
+

 

[Sweet]

When I did my workshop dust study a little while ago I went through a lot of the HSE documents. I have just revisited some of them and it still seems to put the emphasis on measuring the local risk (with dust measuring kit), consulting the workforce and doing what is deemed to be the best practical effort to reduce the risk.

As far as I can tell (this is my opinion and not to be taken as fact) there is no regulation per se that forces anyone to use an M rather than L extractor. The HSE does say that for workshop clean-ups an M class should be used.

The acid test it to find out what your insurance company wish you to do.

One of my local professional workshops is required by their insurers to have their plumbed in extraction system tested each year. They make no stipulation about local collection from routers and sanders.

I am careful in my one man shop and use a CTL26 and when I am cutting MDF or Iroko or doing a cleanup I use a respirator as well.

Peter

Good advice Peter, thank you.

The LEV testing you mention applies to all extraction systems when used in a professional environment. Even Festool extractors should be checked that they are still working at there stated flow and pressure ratings every 14 months.

D

 

[joiner1970]

Dan,

Yeah all good here. Had a year of local ish (Egham) work probably the busiest year I've had. Nice to have a rest at xmas . Glad I'm not up in London we did that job for a Russian billionaire in Knightsbridge for around 2 years that was just before I looked at your job. Then my back went still not right but I'm working ok, I've had to lol.

Anyway have a good Christmas and New year.