Edge joining with Domino (hmmmm?)

[Warren]

I just edge joined two panels, three boards each, using the 5mm Dominoes.  The boards are cherry, all the same thickness.

First try:  set the boards on a folding table (long enough and to spare), held the Domino and the boards flush with the table, and mortised away (always using the same face 'up').  Result:  a disappointment as far as registry of the surfaces is concerned.

I decided there might be some flex in the table causing the registration to vary.

Second try:  clamped the boards to a flat surface, held the Domino flush on the same surface very tightly, and mortised away (always using the same face 'up').  Result:  a bit better, but not good enough in my opinion.  I can measure the difference between two of the boards at .053" in a couple of places.  Other places seem right on.

Shouldn't I expect dead on surfaces when using the Domino?  Both of the panels can be surface sanded and will do just fine, but I really expected a better registration.

Is there something you could suggest in my procedure?

Thanks for any and all suggestions/observations.

Warren

 

[Bob Marino]

  Warren,

  Are you registering off the boards or the table? If the boards are about 3/4" thick, you may think you are registering off the boards, but are registering off the table and that can be an issue.

Bob

 

[Warren]

The boards are 3/4", and I am registering off the flat board on the table.  I don't understand why it shouldn't register anyway, since the same surface is 'up' on each board.

I will try the next set (sometime in the future) registering off the surface (I assume the fence goes to 90 degrees).

Thanks for the reply Bob.  Can you 'splain (as Desi would say) why I should get this variance registering the way I am?

Warren

 

[Bob Marino]

The boards are 3/4", and I am registering off the flat board on the table.  I don't understand why it shouldn't register anyway, since the same surface is 'up' on each board.

I will try the next set (sometime in the future) registering off the surface (I assume the fence goes to 90 degrees).

Thanks for the reply Bob.  Can you 'splain (as Desi would say) why I should get this variance registering the way I am?

Warren

Because  that surface may not be perfectly flat and if there is any variance, even in the presure you are applying, you will be off.

Bob

 

[msrdnr]

This is the problem I've always had with biscuit jointers - you can never tell when you're going to be a whisker out of vertical alignment. I was hoping that the Domino might solve it but sounds like they have the same issue.

Do any of the other Domino users around here experience this?

 

[dirtydeeds]

if you are edge joining timber you thickness, or sand after youve edged joined them, its less labour

you shouldnt be phased by this problem with real wood, its normal the boards are never perfect thickness and never fully flat

the domino is accurate for man made boards but you should also never expect the total perfection required for veneerd ply or mdf, contrary to popular belief these materials are susceptible to moisture movement and to bad stacking.

for this reason i always register off the face of the material with the fence, unless im doing mouldings 

 

[ROb McGilp]

I had a fellow woodworker come over last weekend with his Domino. He felt that his edge joins were not matched as well as they should be (as your's are). Without telling me this, he asked me to use his Domino to join two boards together. The result was a perfectly flat join.
Turns out he was holding the Domino by the barrel and also exerting a lot of pressure onto the plate to hold it down on the workpiece. When he moved his grip back to the plugit end of the Domino and eased up on the downward pressureon the plate, he got excellent results.
Just a thought.

Regards,

Rob

 

[Brice Burrell]

Thank you Rob, very nice tip for the new Domino users. Well done.

 

[Warren]

I certainly appreciate the discussion, and thank each of you for your contribution.  It looks like it might well be my procedure.  I sanded my panels down, and they are OK, but the next ones will be done as suggested.

I am concerned about this not only for these and subsequent edge joined panels, but I also need to joint a shelf onto a face frame for this project, and that just has to be spot on.  I won't be able to sand out the difference, especially if it varies across the face frame.

Warren

 

[mastercabman]

make sure that the board that you are using,is hanging from your work table surface(about a couple of inches)
so that the domino machine is not sitting on the table.

 

[krs2404]

I had the same problems when I first started using the domino. I was registering from the face. What I didn't realize was the fence was drifting up a tiny bit each cut so there was a few mm of difference from the first to the last. I solved this by tightening the fence lock to very very tight. I have to make it real tight or it slips. I have been afraid I am going to break the lever one of these days but I have solved the drift problem. See if that happens to you. you can check after each cut to see if any space opens up in the stepped height adjuster.

 

[Eli]

You can reposition that lever so it gets tighter with less force. In other words, you can remove the lever and replace it in a different position so that it tightens earlier.

 

[Mark Carlson]

Warren,

I would also check your fence to make sure its really 90 degrees.  My fence was more like 89 degrees when I 1st got it couldn't get edge joints to line up.
Now I get perfect registration and you should too.  You should also practice on scraps until your getting repeatable results.

~mark

 

[daveg]

I suspect that you're not getting a consistent registration with the bottom of the Domino and the top of the table.

I've the Domino many times for this type of joint with very good results. However, I reference from the top surface of the workpiece with the fence at 90? and locked firmly in place. If the thickness of the workpiece would allow the Domino to be resting on the workbench, then you must also raise the workpiece with a spacer or overhang the workpiece over the edge of the workbench in order to get a good registration from the top of the workpiece.

 

[Benjamin Miner]

My 2 cents:

First Cent - The Domino is a fantastic tool for many applications, but just because it's Festool doesn't create a perfect world out of the actual world. I don't bother to try to spline glue ups any more, I kept finding that the biscuits or dominos were creating more trouble than if I simply clamped two glued-edged board together. Glue, clamp, and then gently persuade any unevenness with a rubber mallet. Whatever slight discprepancies remain are easily remedied with some smooting plane work, or a scraper, or even a trip through the planer. I've switched over to this rather traditionalist method; it works.

2nd cent - If your fence is creeping on you, have Festool send you a replacement. I had an issue with mine, so they replaced the whole front assembly, and sent me a UPS prepaid shipping label for my defective one. Tightening the hell out of the thing will only work until metal fatiigue sets in...

 

[Jerry Work]

Hi Warren,

For edge glue ups, I have found that one should never ever try to register off of anything but the "good" face of the workpiece.  If you register off of that face and hold the domino fence flat so the slot is parallel with that good face then the holes will properly align.  Clamp the outer edges of the two workpieces to be joined flat down onto the top of your MFT while drawing the two boards together.  Use white butcher paper (non coated) to protect the top of the MFT.  Your glued up panels will come out perfectly flat requiring only sanding to finish.  It is easy and fast once you get used to doing it this way.

It is theoretically possible to register off of the table, but that brings a whole boat load of variables into play.  No one needs that aggravation so stay with registering off of the "good" face of the workpiece and you will enjoy highly consistent, nearly perfect outcomes every time.  Hope this helps.

Jerry

I certainly appreciate the discussion, and thank each of you for your contribution.  It looks like it might well be my procedure.  I sanded my panels down, and they are OK, but the next ones will be done as suggested.

I am concerned about this not only for these and subsequent edge joined panels, but I also need to joint a shelf onto a face frame for this project, and that just has to be spot on.  I won't be able to sand out the difference, especially if it varies across the face frame.

Warren

 

[Warrior]

What Jerry said.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Although I am very pleased with my Domino, I don't use it when gluing up boards for panels.  Instead I glue them up with the face side of the boards registered against the clamp bars.  I start by gluing not more than 3 boards at once, then adding additional boards as needed to reach the desired full width.  You can release the clamps about every 1/2 hour to add another board or two.  Very little clean up is needed, mainly of the glue squeeze out at the joints.  I used to place wax paper or newspaper over the clamp bars to absorb any excess glue.  The newspaper of course sticks to the glued boards but whatever won't tear away is easily scraped/sanded off.  After Jerry Work's tutorial on use of the MFT, I have switched to using butcher paper.  I realize my technique may not be suitable for the professional / production shop, but it works very well for me as a hobbyist.  Using Titebond glue, I have never had a glued up panel fail, including some laminated cutting boards that have been through the dishwasher (even with original Titebond formula which is not claimed to be waterproof).

Dave R.

 

[Warren]

Good morning to all!
I have continued to appreciate the discussion and suggestions. 

Benjamin and Dave, I have always done what you suggested for panels in the past.  I haven't had a failure of any glue-up either.  I just expected the Domino to help in what is an 'interesting' process, and I still do.  I am reminded of the saying "To a fellow with a hammer, everything looks like a nail."  Perhaps I am guilty of that.  But, for now, the Domino is my hammer, and I am going to continue to see if there are 'nails' that I can apply it to.  If you have the Domino, why not use it to its full potential?  Perhaps I am just starting down a slippery slope here.....

Jerry, I like the suggestion of butcher paper, but I had to look around to see what the MFT was was.  I was stretching my budget with the Domino.  (You ought to see my 'shop'    Mostly it passes as a two-car garage with one car's worth of woodworking stuff!

Mark, I have looked at my fence and it is very close.  At 90 degree, it measures within .2 degrees (with my Wixey angle gauge).  I may well have had some problem with the height creeping, though.

Again, to all who have contributed, my thanks.  I hope this has been helpful to others as well.

Warren