Educate me, please...

[clisbyclark]

I own a couple of Festool sanders, a CT 22, TS55 and a MFT because these tools are either totally unique (TS55, MFT) or vastly superior (sanding system) to any competitor's offerings.  I plan to buy a Domino and 1400 router for the same reasons.  That being said, I am having a hard time justifying the switch on Festool drills and jigsaws.  I am using a Makita 14.4 drill/impact kit with extra batteries and the circular saw, recip saw, blower/vac, and flashlight(picked up slightly used for $20 per).  As a finish carpenter, I often use the drill/impact in tandem while working on doors with vix bits to avoid switching out bits.  Power has been more than adequate-even for driving in lags with the impact driver.  I rarely use the recip, but use the circ. saw and blower frequently.  I've never had any problems with my Bosch jigsaw as well, although I 've heard the Festool is better for square cuts on thick stock and I'm sure dust collection factors in as well. 

Now that you know my life story, tell me what I'm missing out on by not going with Festool on these tools.  Believe me, I don't need much of an excuse to buy a Festool anymore.  Thanks

 

[Bob Marino]

  Good question! The Festool drills, particularly the C12, are unique enough to warrant a closer look. Just take a look at Rick's article -

http://www.festoolusa.com/Web_files/C12_technical_review.pdf

The ability to use their accessory chucks makes all their drills soooooooooooooooooooooo very versatile.

Bob

 

[Daviddubya]

I have not given in to Festool cordless drills - yet.  I still use Dewalt, and I guess I will until they wear out.  I'm too happy with my collection of Dewalt cordless tools to stop using them.

I did make the switch from a Bosch jig saw to a Festool.  I had the older model Bosch, without blade guides.  I upgraded to the Festool because I do a fair amount of deck work using 2X material.  The Bosch would notmake square cuts reliably.  The Festool is a much better tool, and the blades are great.  I gave away my Bosch and don't ever miss it.

 

[billybokay]

I just replaced my dead dewalt 14.4, with the 14.4 lithium ion panasonic drill and impact. Got 2 great, light and powerful drills for less than 1 festool. Love them. Was not going ot get their jig saw but I am reconsidering for 2 reasons, dust collection.. just to be able to see the cut, and the ability to make good cuts in thicker stock. Not often but when you need it, you need it.

 

[clintholeman]

FesTools are about the system.  Buying individual tools, while you get a really great tool, doesn't really get to the crux of what makes them really great - its a system that works together to allow you to be the best woodworker you can be.

I have the older C12 and have used the bejabbers out of it and it is still running like it is new. My Trion functions as my band saw and works really well in that capacity.  I like using it with the guide rail and free hand for bow fronts and such. I do like not having wads of dust around to clean up.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Tinker]

Of all the Festool System toys, i would say the cordless drills are the tools least needed as a part of the system, other than that they fit into systainers.  in that repect, alone, they do fit into the system.  I would guess that a person working only within the home or permanant business type shop, any type of cordless drill/driver would work as well.  for those whose shop is basically portable, as with site work, i think the Festool drivers would work best.  It is possible to put any drill into a sustainer, making that a moot point also.  That being said, I have the C12 D-handled drill and love it.  for one thing, i have used it in corners (I have the angled and the offset chucks) that would have been impossible to get into with any other drill.  It is a little heavier than my other 12v cordless drills, but I like the feel of it much better and seem to have better feel for hand drilling.

I have two jigsaws.  One is an old Milwaukee that I have made a base to use upside down so I can see the blade when making intricate cuts. It does not make those nice square cuts i get with the Festool saw. I have not figured how to adapt the Festool jig saw to this type of application.  When i work that out satisfactorilly, my 16" Reliant BS will be out the door.  Or atleast into a more remote corner of my shop.  Right now, it is more in mid floor where i have to move it out of the way constantly.

Tinker

 

[Daviddubya]

Regarding the jig saw - the Festool jig saw is not the world's best as far as being able to see the line you are cutting to.  I have gotten used to the Festool jig saw, and have developed a habit of looking into the front of the saw so I can see the line reasonably well.  With the anti-chip guard in place, the line is harder to see.  Try it for yourself, before you decide.

 

[bill-e]

Regarding the jig saw - the Festool jig saw is not the world's best as far as being able to see the line you are cutting to.  I have gotten used to the Festool jig saw, and have developed a habit of looking into the front of the saw so I can see the line reasonably well.  With the anti-chip guard in place, the line is harder to see.  Try it for yourself, before you decide.

Dave, agree.
 
clisbyclark, 

Here's two tips from my Trion review which will help you keep a bead on that cut line.

First Tip: Wipe both the Chip and Splinter Guards with a fabric softener sheet. This will help keep dust from sticking to them. Re-apply as necessary.

Second Tip: (24 Nov 2006) OK, so I'm getting old, my eyesight stinks and the Trion is kind of tough to see the blade with the guard on. Here's what I've been doing as of late which works well.

I install the splinter guard all the way. Then I remove it and touch the edges of the cut with a Sharpie(tm) marker. Now here's the actual tip. When I reinstall the splitter guard, I only push it on so it just extends past the teeth of the blade. This is enough to perform its function and the kerf in the plastic is then used as a guide.

Even with the blade running and becoming invisible I've been able to use the kerf as the guide....much more accurate than trying to use the point at the end of the splinter guard. This picture was posed which is why the point doesn't line up with the line, but you get the idea, the kerf is readily visible.

 

[billybokay]

After these helpful posts I have decided that if I needed a jig saw I would buy a festool.
Since I have a good pc jigsaw and band saw in the shop, I will hold off to the temptation of the green and black until the kapex arrives.
Ok maybe some more clamps, systainer or two and .......

 

[mysterium]

Clisbyclark,

The replies did a nice job covering the Festool jig saws, the only thing I'd add is the Festools jig saw blades are thicker making them track true.

Clintholeman distilled in a couple sentences the essence of "why Festool" with "FesTools are about the system.  Buying individual tools, while you get a really great tool, doesn't really get to the crux of what makes them really great - its a system that works together to allow you to be the best woodworker you can be."


But the above quote also is applicable specifically to the Festool drills sets.  So if you only ask what makes the Festool drill at $350 better than a $150 drill it becomes subjective... there are lots of good cordless drills being manufactured & sold for less.  However the Festool drill "Set" totally sets itself apart.  Once you start using it as a "set"... the old luxury tasted becomes a necessity.  The only area lacking is Festool offers no impact driver.  However what makes it worth it for me is the chucks.  I went from 5 DeWalts & a Makita... to one Festool TDK 15.6 Set.  I since added a C12 Set for the shop & it's slightly smaller size (there really isn't much difference in weight between the C12 2.4 volt & TDK 15.6 ).  The convenience of swapping the chucks for the task becomes second nature.  The eccentric chuck as a finish carpenter might make the high price worth it alone by not gouging or marking your work from a chuck rubbing up against a cabinet or wall.  The right angle chuck saved my butt in a tight spot swinging a 4 1/2" hole saw where I couldn't get my Milwaukee Hole Haug in (that damn thing would have broke my wrist if it caught had I have gotten it in there...).   

As a Pro who uses the tools all day every day, once you start using the Festool drills as "system" it's as if a light goes off...  and the "others" look pale in comparison.

jim

 

[Ted Miller]

clisbyclark, I just posted this a few minutes ago on another thread here at FOG:

I have a few jig saws, both bosch 1590 and the 1591, skil 4680 with laser and a couple of older black and decker models. I just recently purchased the trion PS 300 and I used it yesterday in my shop to cut some 3/4" birch ply and some 1/2" MDO. All I have to say is that this is by far the best saw I have used to cut holes and make dimension cuts. I own a few of the Festool tools and so far they have been great but this jig saw is by far the best I have ever owned for jig saws. I always thought the bosch were excellent saws and they are but this trion is a bit above the bosch IMHO a better tool. I could see the front of the blade without obstruction. No vibration to the saw at all. Dust collection was awesome and it moved with ease no matter what direction I was pushing the saw. I am glad I made this purchase...

Now as for the drills, I did use C12 drill on a garage shelf job I did a few weeks ago. I own 2 Dewalt DC727 12v, 1 DC759 18v, 1 DW235G, 2 Porter cable 9824 14.4v and 1 Milwaukee 0299. I am one of those guys who has one cordless drill set up with a drill bit, one with a driver and one with a counter sink. I do not like to change bits constantly so I will have three drills with me most of the time. Now using the C12 was a bit tough to get used to since the handle seemed odd to me. I did use it for two straight days on this shelving job and it did work rather well. I have not purchased a drill from Festool yet but I will see how my jobs go and will make a decision later.

Forgot to add after using the Trion yesterday for the first time it worked so well and just now I forgot to even use the chip or splinter guards...

 

[semenza]

Clisbyclark,

The replies did a nice job covering the Festool jig saws, the only thing I'd add is the Festools jig saw blades are thicker making them track true.

Clintholeman distilled in a couple sentences the essence of "why Festool" with "FesTools are about the system.  Buying individual tools, while you get a really great tool, doesn't really get to the crux of what makes them really great - its a system that works together to allow you to be the best woodworker you can be."


But the above quote also is applicable specifically to the Festool drills sets.  So if you only ask what makes the Festool drill at $350 better than a $150 drill it becomes subjective... there are lots of good cordless drills being manufactured & sold for less.  However the Festool drill "Set" totally sets itself apart.  Once you start using it as a "set"... the old luxury tasted becomes a necessity.  The only area lacking is Festool offers no impact driver.  However what makes it worth it for me is the chucks.  I went from 5 DeWalts & a Makita... to one Festool TDK 15.6 Set.   I since added a C12 Set for the shop & it's slightly smaller size (there really isn't much difference in weight between the C12 2.4 volt & TDK 15.6 ).   The convenience of swapping the chucks for the task becomes second nature.  The eccentric chuck as a finish carpenter might make the high price worth it alone by not gouging or marking your work from a chuck rubbing up against a cabinet or wall.  The right angle chuck saved my butt in a tight spot swinging a 4 1/2" hole saw where I couldn't get my Milwaukee Hole Haug in (that damn thing would have broke my wrist if it caught had I have gotten it in there...).   

As a Pro who uses the tools all day every day, once you start using the Festool drills as "system" it's as if a light goes off...  and the "others" look pale in comparison.

jim

          The C12 ran a 4 1/2" hole saw !!!!!! holy  c#@$    !!!!!!!

      Seth Semenza

 

[Toolpig]

Does using the jigsaw with a vac improve the visibility of the cut line?

TP

Regarding the jig saw - the Festool jig saw is not the world's best as far as being able to see the line you are cutting to.  I have gotten used to the Festool jig saw, and have developed a habit of looking into the front of the saw so I can see the line reasonably well.  With the anti-chip guard in place, the line is harder to see.  Try it for yourself, before you decide.

 

[Warrior]

Bill-e,

TY for the tip on the splinter guards. Could you extend the outside of the kerf lines using a razor and square and maybe use red sharpie? That way you have a longer line to refernce to the cut line.

Barrel grip or Top handle? and why?
I had a top handle for about 2 weeks b4 it was stolen from my truck. I have now 2 bosch an older model with a coping foot and the newer version.

Thanks,

Eiji

 

[richard.selwyn]

I have to confess that I have 3 Festool drills (I've got the jigsaw but its mounted in the Festool Basis table and otherwise I use a Bosch as I have problems with the Festool)  I wouldn't be without the C12 or the TDK and the various interchangeable heads, but I also use a Makita impact screwdriver.  I wish Festool made one and I wish they would start using Li-ion batteries.  I have a CDD with NiMH's which hold their charge well, but I can see why they discontinued it); the technology of the C12 means that the batteries (NiCad) last a long time, but if there are a lot of screws to sink I ALWAYS reach for the Makita.  Impact is just so much quicker, efficient and less tiring (not sure how to spell that) apart from the noise.
Centrotec is great and I have the old and the new centrotec sets, but its a pain that if you want to use a standard hex drive there is a no quick easy solution.

My 2 euros worth.

 

[bill-e]

Eiji, you could, but for cutting curves you really need to be looking at the blade.

Toolpig.  Not in my experience.

 

[John Langevin]

I have the TDK 12 drill and as others have said the ergonomics, balance, feel, and most of all the chucks are what make it shine.  As for using standard bits you simply use the supplied extension/adapter. I have the D-Handle Trion and have found it it easier to follow a curved line (for anything straight I use the rail or a Benchdog circular saw guide) by pulling the saw towards me which allows me to easily see the blade/line interface. Careful adjustment of the guide blocks (mentioned elsewhwere in this forum) is necessary to prevent overheating of the blade while still providing adequate support.