Electrical advice sought on Federal Pioneer panel circuit breaker

I had a similar issue with an old panel. I ended up finding a electrician who had a stock of old parts that they would save when swapping panels out during rehabs.  He had just the breaker I needed, you might want to check with some of the old established electric electric contractors in your area.

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Your best bet is to swap it out for another panel. The Federal Pioneer (Canada) is also known as the Federal Pacific (US) and they are known fire hazards. The issue is that the breakers do not trip when they are expected to. A quick search for either name will yield you more information to review. The Stab-Lok breakers are the ones that are a no go. I am no expert on this, but am familiar with the panels, noting that two houses near my mother-in-law burned down and the fire was attributed to Federal Pacific panels. I advised her to replace hers and she did and later found out that other neighbors had replaced theirs when remodeling their kitchens.
 
Would echo others and say replace it. From watching home improvement shows, I know these things are still a thing in Canada. They were never recalled in the US, but they are no longer for sale, and people continually replace them.  Like was mentioned, some folks very well may have parts as salvage, or go to Canada, which it looks like you planned ahead an live there already.

You are trying to find a breaker today to do something. Even if you succeed, who is to say you don't find yourself in the same situation again. Rip it out with one of the standard big names, have access to breakers anyplace, plus ability to put in newer breaker types that might not exist for it. Like I doubt they have AFCI breakers for them.
 
I'll echo what you've read previously... if it's an FPE, replace it, sooner rather than later. Get a serious and safe panel like Square D.
 
Yup, had a panel problem  about ten years ago, and the electrician said to replace it due to the hazard.

Seth
 
Thanks, everyone for the advice.

I contacted a few electrical businesses, with one telling me that the installation would mean one day with no power for the house. "Decent weather" is recommended for the work to be done. We're expecting a bone-chilling weekend...so I'll revisit this after all the quotes are in (ballpark I think it'll be between $2500 - $3500 Cdn), and the panel swap won't happen until the warmer months return in the spring.
 

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Federal Pacific Stab lok panels are generally considered hazardous. Get that crap out of your house.
I won't even touch one.
Some insurance providers also won't provide coverage.
You can search FP Stab lok and see issues.
 
I too would recommend that you replace the panel. I worked as a site supervisor on an apartment complex rehab in 1998.  The first item on the list was replacing the FPE panels in all 420 units.  They had been deemed unsafe. That was in Kansas City, MO.
 
Still working on the quotes, but two of them are zero, because the two electricians are of the opinion that the panel I have (installed in 1997) is fine. One sent me this link:
https://www.cpsc.gov/content/commis...-breakers-and-provides-safety-information-for

One contractor needs to schedule a visit next week to have a look, while others are giving me estimates based the photo of the panel I sent them. The city permit and power company fee alone will cost about $600 Cdn!
 
ChuckM said:
I contacted a few electrical businesses, with one telling me that the installation would mean one day with no power for the house. "Decent weather" is recommended for the work to be done. We're expecting a bone-chilling weekend...so I'll revisit this after all the quotes are in (ballpark I think it'll be between $2500 - $3500 Cdn), and the panel swap won't happen until the warmer months return in the spring.
Click to expand...

Why would replacing an electrical panel cost that much?  You would/should not be touching any of the electrical work in the house.  All you are doing is getting the power company to turn off the power to the house.  Then going in and disconnecting all of the wires going into the current panel.  Marking them.  Then putting in the new panel and reattaching the existing wires.  All you are doing is loosening, tightening screws in the panel and attaching, detaching wires in the panels.  All in the same spot.  You are not doing any electrical work in the house.  Why so expensive for a 2 hour job.  20-30 circuits total.  In my house the panel is in the garage wall so it would also require tearing out some drywall on either side of the panel and repairing it when done.  But that little drywall work is cheap and easy to do.  The homeowner can do that.

Or am I missing something.  Does replacing the electrical panel require the entire house to be recertified by the electric company, government, church, god, devil, UN, FDA, and Santa.  Changing the panel requires you to tear out every wall, ceiling, floor, roof in the house and requires seven inspectors to use magnifying glasses on every wire and outlet and switch to make sure it is up to code.  Is it wrong to assume since the house passed code when it was built it still passes today if you don't actually touch anything except the connection at the panel.
 
So far the two quotes I have in front of me are $2,200 and $2,500 subject to confirmation with a site visit. As I said, two other contractors offered a "no need for a panel swap" quote. Of course, if I insisted, I'm sure they would send me some quotes for a new panel.

The last offer from a business that has done some electrical work for my house before should be here next week.

I know people charge a lot here for technical jobs. The supports for my car hood weakened over time, and the car dealership quoted me $400 or so for replacing them. Thanks to YouTube, I found the steps needed for installing them, and saved myself $300 or so (parts from Amazon). Including watching and rewatching the video, and actually doing it...the time spent was under an hour. It was like I had made $300 in an hour!

Another trade, apart from plumbers, that charges a lot, is garage door service. My brother had an issue with the door closing/opening, and some guy quoted him over the phone $250 for fixing/replacing the (weak) spring. I told my brother he should try adjusting the tension buttons. He himself fixed the problem with a screw driver!

Actually, elderly homeowners here are particularly at the mercy of the trade people.
 
I don't know the full details of Canadian electrical code. I know they base of the NEC just like the US, as the 2 countries work towards having the same code, so I will assume things to be the same as here.  So if someone is replacing a panel, they will have to bring that part up to code as best as possible. Mainly this might just mean adding AFCI breakers to all the 120V stuff.  Some cost associated with it might be that depending on the old panel setup.

In American dollars.

New residential panel $120
Guessing on breakers, and going for a worst case, with guesses of a typical house
Double pull breakers, qty 4 * $10 = 40
AFCI-GFCI dual function breakers, qty 20 * $45 = $900 max, 
  If they can just use standard breakers 20* $5 = $100
  I'm going to assume there is at least 1 or 2 GFCIs in there now, so probably more like $200 min.
New SER cable from meter base (likely needed and with meter pulled for panel swap, why not) so 10ft * $5 = $50

So ~1110 dollars max for parts, or $410 on the low end.

It's going to be an all day job, between waiting on utility to come and pull power, then come back. Farting around pulling it, doing the job, I'd say full 8hr job.  So 8hr * $100bucks,  so $800 labor.

So I would expect something in the $1200-2000 USD  $1536-$2560.  Plus permits which were 600.  -> $2136-3160.

So yeah, I would say those prices are inline.  If you are used to the kind of work, then doing it yourself will save a bunch of money for sure. But you aren't going to avoid a permit on something like a panel, since you need the utility to come out. Not that anyone should be avoiding permits.

Like others, I will stand with the panel needs to go. But if you want to keep it, yet are struggling to find breakers, there has been a national shortage of them due to covid. Plants got shut down, many brands are made all in the same place. You might get lucky and they have a pile of them, or the one you need just doesn't exist anyplace.
 
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