electrical load

HowardH · Nov 2, 2015

I just ordered a 20" planer with a spiral head. My shop is wired with a 220 20amp breaker and outlet for the big iron I already have. The planer is a 5hp 1ph rated at 19amp. The manual says it requires a 30 amp circuit. Will my current setup still work safely? Should I replace the breaker with a 30 amp and change out the outlet as well? I would suppose if it drew too much amperage it would simply trip the breaker. Would appreciate any insight...

tjbnwi · Nov 2, 2015

HowardH said:
I just ordered a 20" planer with a spiral head. My shop is wired with a 220 20amp breaker and outlet for the big iron I already have. The planer is a 5hp 1ph rated at 19amp. The manual says it requires a 30 amp circuit. Will my current setup still work safely? Should I replace the breaker with a 30 amp and change out the outlet as well? I would suppose if it drew too much amperage it would simply trip the breaker. Would appreciate any insight...

The 20 amp breaker may trip under the start up load.

DO NOT change the breaker or receptacle with out checking the wire gauge first. A 30 amp circuit requires 10 gauge conductors per the NEC.

Per the NEC you cannot use a 30 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit.

Tom

HowardH · Nov 2, 2015

I believe the wire used from the breaker to the outlet is 12 gauge. The machine manual says the maximum draw is 25 amps and if one has to use an extension cord, 10 gauge is the minimum. Sounds like I need to hire an electrician to run new wire and replace the circuit with a 30 amp breaker. I can always try it and see if it works ok as I doubt I will even come close to using it under the maximum load.

jimbouk · Nov 3, 2015

It's the start up load that could be the issue and trip it out.

richy3333 · Nov 3, 2015

HowardH said:
I just ordered a 20" planer with a spiral head. My shop is wired with a 220 20amp breaker and outlet for the big iron I already have. The planer is a 5hp 1ph rated at 19amp. The manual says it requires a 30 amp circuit. Will my current setup still work safely? Should I replace the breaker with a 30 amp and change out the outlet as well? I would suppose if it drew too much amperage it would simply trip the breaker. Would appreciate any insight...

As has been suggested don't change the breaker out. The breaker protects the circuit cable. So if you put a higher rated breaker in the circuit isn't protected. Draw more current (overload) than the cable can cope with and the cable will catch fire (worst case scenario) because the breaker is wrong to protect for overload situations.

It would appear the issue is with the initial in-rush current from the machine. In the UK we have different rated breakers (type B,C,D) that can assist with this. I don't know if this happens in USA. You need an electrician to help with the correct design of the circuit. It might just be changing out the breaker, rather than a new circuit. We only work in metric cable in the UK, so a 30A supply would often be protected by a 32A breaker and 4mm cable. Your equivalent is 6AWG (but all that is based upon the installation method of the cable - derating factors etc).

Holmz · Nov 3, 2015

jimbouk said:
It's the start up load that could be the issue and trip it out.

Do that mean that that there are slo blow version of breakers that are 20A, but with some over current to allow in rush?
http://www.cesco.com/b2c/product/Schneider-Electric-Square-D-QO120HM-QO/33471

jimbouk · Nov 3, 2015

As rich said there are different options here in the UK but don't know about other places.

rvieceli · Nov 3, 2015

[member=396]HowardH[/member] I'd suggest leaving the current 20 amp 220 circuit and ADDING the necessary 30 amp circuit and receptacle. It will give you more flexibility for future additions without calling in the electrician again.

Ron

ben_r_ · Nov 4, 2015

Yea you should definitely install a 30 amp breaker using at least 10 awg wire to the proper receptacle type outlet to use that tool.

HowardH · Nov 4, 2015

I called Griz and asked their opinion since it's their machine They said 12 gauge wire is fine, use a 30 amp breaker and it all is good. No need for 10 gauge wire. I have a 200 amp panel and it's already completely full. I have 2 - 220 20 amp outlets each with their own breaker that are positioned right next to each other. My plan is to convert one of the outlets to the 30 amp for the planer and then the other for my Hammer K3. That outlet could also serve my bandsaw. I never run more than one machine at a time so I don't have to worry about overloading anything.

tjbnwi · Nov 4, 2015

HowardH said:
I called Griz and asked their opinion since it's their machine They said 12 gauge wire is fine, use a 30 amp breaker and it all is good. No need for 10 gauge wire. I have a 200 amp panel and it's already completely full. I have 2 - 220 20 amp outlets each with their own breaker that are positioned right next to each other. My plan is to convert one of the outlets to the 30 amp for the planer and then the other for my Hammer K3. That outlet could also serve my bandsaw. I never run more than one machine at a time so I don't have to worry about overloading anything.

Their recommendation is a NEC code violation, hands down the worst advice they could have given you.

DO NOT follow their advice for the 30 amp breaker on 12 gauge wire.

Tom

WarnerConstCo. · Nov 4, 2015

Did you expect anything more from grizzly?

tjbnwi · Nov 4, 2015

WarnerConstCo. said:
Did you expect anything more from grizzly?

Never had any contact with Grizzly, don't recall ever using one of their pieces of equipment either.

Tom

Bohdan · Nov 4, 2015

HowardH said:
The planer is a 5hp 1ph rated at 19amp. The manual says it requires a 30 amp circuit.

A 5hp machine would draw 34 amps on full load. Grizzly's answer would make sense if you never ran it on full load or their motor is not 5hp. The only way to find out is to have it tested but either way it would be extremely foolish to run it on 20amp wiring as the first time that you run it hard the smoke won't be from the cutters.

ben_r_ · Nov 5, 2015

Yea Id disregard what Grizzly told you and run at least a 10 awg wire. NEC code is written for a reason.

Holmz · Nov 5, 2015

If you use the slow bow version of a 20A breaker then you are still at 20A, and retain your existing wiring, and keep to the code, and do not trip out when the tools start.
You could also put in a new circuit, bit you still probably want slow blow for the induction motors that start with full on bang.

Holmz said:
jimbouk said:

It's the start up load that could be the issue and trip it out.

Click to expand...

Do that mean that that there are slo blow version of breakers that are 20A, but with some over current to allow in rush?
http://www.cesco.com/b2c/product/Schneider-Electric-Square-D-QO120HM-QO/33471

rizzoa13 · Nov 5, 2015

Is the shop or basement unfinished? Even if it isn't you could run yournwires on the outside of the wall up high in a metal conduit. I say this because you already said you could switch out a receptacle and switch out a breaker, so your most of the way there in just running a whole new circuit.

What I would do is remove one of your 20 amp breakers at the panel. Disconnect the hots from the breaker and the ground from the bus bar, curl them up inside the panel out of the way and wire nut them. Then run a new heavy gauge wire (will you ever need more than 30 amp? If so just run the appropriate size wire now so your not in this predicament again). Install the corresponding breaker and receptacle and call it a day. This way you leave your 20 amp circuit all but connected in case you ever need it again. Who knows you may open up space in yor panel eventually and could re-hook it up.

You really don't need an electrician for this it's SIMPLE. Just be smart and turn off the power to the panel when your doing work inside it and don't get near the hots coming in.

HowardH · Nov 5, 2015

My electrician also disagreed with Griz. We ran 10 gauge from the panel to the outlet. No chance of overload now. His $150 fee (a bargain) was almost completely offset by buying the supplies from an electrical supply house vs. home depot. I'll never buy anything of any substance electrically speaking again from HD or Lowes. They wanted $1.88 a foot for 10/2 wire and the supply company wanted $.55. The wire cap (the plug) was $18 verses $32 at HD. My advice is to listen to your electrician, your FOG friends and go find an electrical supply place for these kind of materials verses your big box stores.

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