Electrical/Wiring Manual Suggestions

[graphex]

I appreciate the great advice. Just ordered the Rex Cauldwell book.

Good point, Dan about grounding the water system vs grounding to the water system. I wonder what differences appear with those new nonmetallic water systems in terms of grounding. (I have regular copper, but just wondering aloud)

I am considering a circuit with a separate ground for my computer equipment (I have lots of computer equipment). It would just be 1 or 2 outlets (with the special orange face type with the triangle) in the office for the computers to be as isolated as possible from other circuits.

I also have a weather station on my roof with a rather large metal pole, which I want to ground in case of lightning. I got a 6' copper spike and some solid copper wire (can't remember the gauge) just to give a strike something other than the house to go through. Thanks for the advice on getting that spike into the ground, Rob. (I was just going to slam it into the ground with my post hammer and expected to have about 10lbs of copper to recycle the next day...) I've had lightning strike my house before, and go through the coax line of the cable and take out just about all of my a/v gear, and give me a good jolt all the way through the Playstation controller I had in my hand at that moment (mostly just induction at that point, but it sure hurt!). Luckily I had physically disconnected all my computer equipment minutes before or I would have maxed out my renter's insurance at the time.

 

[brandon.nickel]

Sean,

I drove a pair of new ground rods in Colorado Springs a couple of years ago.  You should know that they're not solid copper.  They're copper-clad steel.  You can rent an industrial hammer-driver from Home Depot and they'll throw in a ground-rod driver attachment.  Using that tool the ground rod goes right on in.  Without it, good luck.  I tried a variety of methods, including the static water column and a water-jet method first.  In both cases I couldn't get the last 2' into the ground.  With the impact tool it too longer to climb up onto the ladder with the driver than to install the rods.

-Brandon

 

[kgregc]

I would second...and third...JDLee's list!

Wiring Simplified is my "go to" book on wiring, with the Creative Ultimate Guide next. The B&D, and Wiring a House are on my to buy list, but I have looked at them several times at the book store.

 

[robtonya]

Dave, I did not know about multiple rods not being code, I bought my stuff from a licensed master electrician, and ran down my scenario. Maybe it is just the area I live in. I have one rod grounded on the 100 amp panels buss, then of coarsethat panel is connected to my 200 amp, and that is grounded to my other buss, then connecting my first grounding rod, so the whole systems grounds are connected, but you think that is a no good situation? I am one of those people who cannot ground my water lines (they are all plastic).

 

[brandon.nickel]

The code indicates that you cannot have multiple paths to the grounding grid, not that you can't have multiple ground rods.  This is to prevent parallel paths to ground and possible ground potential problems (like rolling dark bands on your tv).  Read Section 250 of the NEC for more detail.  I recommend the NEC2005 Handbook as it illustrates the code with pictures of right and wrong.  Further, it states "All grounding electrodes as described in 250.52(A)(1) through (A)(6) that are present at each building or structure served sall be bonded together to form the grounding electrode system".  Meaning, if you have a grounded cold water pipe, it must be tied to the other system(s), i.e. ground rods, foundation grounds, etc.  All of your panels need to run back to the ground system like a tree (with a single trunk and root system).  It doesn't matter how many branches you tie in or how large the root system is, but they must go through a single point just above the ground plane.

 

[Dan Clark]

I remember reading that an electrical panel needs to be grounded to two grounding rods set into the ground no closer than 6' apart.  I can't find it in Code Check Electrical, so it's probably a local regulation. 

Regards,

Dan.

 

[robtonya]

Thanks brandon.nickel. It sounds if I might be o.k. then. I didn't research it very much, so I'm not going to say that this is my field of expertise, but it has been about two years since I did this project, and I haven't had any problems. I know I tried to make it as safe as I could, and I asked alot of questions when I did this. I know where I am going for my next electrical advice. I do have a question : I have the 200 amp main, and a 100 amp going to the house, and I think a 20 amp for the air conditioner, and another 100 amp going to the kids playhouse, I was wanting to run another 100 amp to my wood shop building, and I have the space in the 200 amp panel for another breaker, is this o.k. to do? I know you probably need to know more to answer this question. The 100 amp to the playhouse definetly doesn't have to be 100 amp though, it has a window air conditioner, and a baseboard heater are the most users out there. thanks

 

[The Woodentop]

Remember those television programs we all saw as infants? They would often end with a line something like "do not try this at home children". Well, this may apply here too. Please be very careful if you're an inexperienced amateur electrician. It can be VERY dangerous. Apologies for stating the obvious but nobody seems to have emphasised just how serious this subject is.

 

[brandon.nickel]

Woodentop is correct.  You can seriously injure/kill yourself, as well as damage/destroy electrical equipment and start fires if you do electrical work improperly.  Most areas allow a homeowner who also lives in the home to do their own wiring.  Meaning, you cannot wire your rental house as you would be imposing a risk on someone else.  I highly recommend reading and understanding the electrical code regarding any modifications prior to doing any work on the house.  You'll also need a good voltmeter.  I also recommend one of the voltage-sensing sticks.  Do NOT work on any wiring while "hot".

Dan, I agree that (at least) two ground rods is required for a 200A, but I couldn't find the reference in the code, so I deleted that part of my original post.

That said, Rob, it sounds like you'll need to do some calculations to determine your load.  The code includes an entire section on determining your apparent load.  Obviously you can run more than 200A worth of breakers in a 200A panel, but there are actually limits to how far you can push it.  I'm not even going to start to summarize it here.  I'm assuming you are running 240V to each of these locations, so you're going to be running 4 separate conductors to each panel (2 hot, one neutral, one ground).  ALL of these must be rated for the max amperage of the breaker that you install in the main panel.  The ground and the neutral will technically both be bonded to the ground in the main panel, but you must run separate conductors.  You can save some money if you go with a 60A versus a 100A just based on wire size.  I'm not a licensed electrician, just a paranoid guy who likes to do his own work and reads a lot.

I recommend either reading the code until you're confident or hiring an electrician.  Internet advice, no matter how well intentioned or researched, is probably not a great thing to hang your life on.  For specifics, you'll need to consult the experts.  Any questions on how to design your system to work best will probably get a lot of useful feedback around here.

-Brandon

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I agree with Brandon.  Two 8 ft grounding rods were not required in my area (for 200A service panel), just one connected with #4 solid copper wire.  But soil conditions and thus grounding capability vary.  The soil is always wet  if you go a few feet down in my area.  I repeat that you may/can get useful advice from your local inspector, too.  In my city (Akron, OH) a homeowner is not permitted to do any wiring or plumbing or HVAC work on his own house unless he passes a basic test given by the city's building department.  I found the local building inspectors who came to my site to be very helpful, especially the general building structures person.

Dave R.

 

[robtonya]

Thanks Dave and Brandon. I have a good relationship with the local master electrician (he says he hays to pay $5,000 a year I think to hold the title master) and would trust him, and buy my supplies from him too, I would definetly sit down with him before doing any job, but there are to be some very knowledgable people here so I thought I would ask that question, to see if it was a no way situation.

 

[The Woodentop]

I hope I haven't offended you......it was me that alerted the danger side of things!

 

[robtonya]

No Woodentop, no offense at all here. I know it is dangerous, and you are right. I like to ask alot of questions, and save some money. I know that I am no professional at it, and some times you should just let the pro do it, the key is to know when you could get in over your head, and I have seem to be pretty good at knowing when. I take all advice, because I know there is alot of value in another man's experience. Thank you.

 

[Cannuck]

In Ontario, Canada, there is a great book called "Electrical Code Simplified".  It is an easy read, and gives great diagrams for every wiring scenario, that meets the Ontario Electrical Code.  It's about $12 at Home Depot (right next to Electrical 1-2-3).

If you're doing your own wiring, buy this book, and take out a wiring permit from the ESA (Electrical Safety Association if you're in Ontario).  They will inspect your work, and certify it. 

I've done alot of units this way.  Saved a tonne of money, and have the peace of mind (and inspection for my insurance company).