Entry Doors with side lites
- Thread starter Warrior
- Start date
nickao
Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2008
- Messages
- 4,617
Woodworking is a craft and I truly believe anyone can learn it and I mean anyone. A craft like woodworking can be learned.
Woodworking does become an art form in many ways, but as far as copying a step by step instructional I think just about anyone can do it if the effort is put in. And of course the tools make a difference, but I think I can make those routes with my DeWalt as well as the Festool.
I think the woodworking TALENT is learned through experience. At least the constructional techniques. Coming up with a fresh design or creating a jig to get the cuts done with finesse is where the talent comes in.
Copying his techniques, I believe are within the capabilities of anyone on this forum. It seems he has worked out the tough things to do in this project for us and that is one thing I like about his project and picture progression in particular.
What most do you like about this project to convince me to give it my first place vote?? Do you agree or disagree with me in terms of the project ? I do not want to get to much off track discussing talent, he obviously has it! All of Eiji F stuff rocks!
Nickao
Woodworking does become an art form in many ways, but as far as copying a step by step instructional I think just about anyone can do it if the effort is put in. And of course the tools make a difference, but I think I can make those routes with my DeWalt as well as the Festool.
I think the woodworking TALENT is learned through experience. At least the constructional techniques. Coming up with a fresh design or creating a jig to get the cuts done with finesse is where the talent comes in.
Copying his techniques, I believe are within the capabilities of anyone on this forum. It seems he has worked out the tough things to do in this project for us and that is one thing I like about his project and picture progression in particular.
What most do you like about this project to convince me to give it my first place vote?? Do you agree or disagree with me in terms of the project ? I do not want to get to much off track discussing talent, he obviously has it! All of Eiji F stuff rocks!
Nickao
nickao
Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2008
- Messages
- 4,617
Yeah, its hard not to look at the whole process and just think he had it built in his head long before he cut any wood. I have told clients don't worry I have it built already. In my head.
He is detailed oriented and I will need some convincing not to choose this as the best so far for this month. I do not think you can go wrong formatting a project with the pics like he did. But there are projects I have not looked over very carefully and about three weeks left for more people to submit, so I am not firm on anything at all yet. Just leaning this way right now.
Eiji F you rock!
Nickao
He is detailed oriented and I will need some convincing not to choose this as the best so far for this month. I do not think you can go wrong formatting a project with the pics like he did. But there are projects I have not looked over very carefully and about three weeks left for more people to submit, so I am not firm on anything at all yet. Just leaning this way right now.
Eiji F you rock!
Nickao
Brice Burrell
Member
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2007
- Messages
- 7,385
Eiji, your jig is similar to my new LR32 jig. Nice work, the thread is coming along great.
dirtydeeds
Member
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2007
- Messages
- 1,009
eiji
i was sure i had commented on this work of yours. now............... how to do it justice
theres only one way................... english understatement ...............
"its quite good"
then when your down the pub......... "did you see that work, its 'kin brilliant"
i was sure i had commented on this work of yours. now............... how to do it justice
theres only one way................... english understatement ...............
"its quite good"
then when your down the pub......... "did you see that work, its 'kin brilliant"
Nick,nickao said:
I have to disagree with that comment. I do think that woodworking is learned but not all can become truly good at it without a few things. This is my opinion only and is based on my perspective. I have been a finish carpenter for about five years. Before finish carpentry I was a commercial construction superintendant. I have never worked as a finish carpenter for someone else. After deciding I wanted to be a finish carpenter I started reading about it, then started picking up tools. I then started to sell myself and got side jobs. I got my licence and moved to SD.
Lets get back to the few things I think someone needs to become a good woodworker.
1. Give credit where credit is due. We are all given talents by God. the talents handed out by God are all different. God just happenned to give me the woodworking card and He only knows why ;D We dont all get the same hand, each of us has a different hand like in cards.
2. Passion. If you want to be good at something you have to live and breath it. I'm not just passionate I'm a little obsesive. But if that is what it takes, so be it.
3. Patience. It takes a little time to hone one's skill. Dont rush it.
4. Practice. I do this for a living so all day long I get to find out what works and what doesn't. You can bypass some of this if you can apply others pratice in the form of reading or videos. I have never learned anything substantial from a video though. But some people learn differently.
In closing.... in five years there would be no possible way for me to be doing these things if God had not given me the ability to do so.
Eiji Fuller
nickao
Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2008
- Messages
- 4,617
Well I could not disagree more.
Send a person to my home and I will teach them. Anyone willing to learn can. My attitude is that a craft as defined is not something that is given at birth, but can be learned. There are certain steps required to do certain projects. You are saying you can do these steps you show in your pictures, etc and some one else can"t. I do not believe that, not for a minute. I am not demeaning you or anyone. But woodworking is just a bunch of steps using tools to create and any one can follow these steps.
No matter how hard I try I can not paint a Mona Lisa. But I definitley could build any furniture piece if by nothing else trial and error. Eventually even the worst woodworker will succeed if he just keeps learning from his mistakes.
My cousin Vince graduated from the Art institute in Chicago and he was born with a gift. He could actually draw perfect portrait of any person at about 8 years old. Some things in art can be taught, but mostly it is a god given talent.
I truly believe in my heart if someone else can build it, then I can build it. I know I can. And if I can, anyone can. I just do not see woodworking like cabinetry and doors and furniture as beyond the learning capabilities of ANYONE willing to try and put forth the effort required.
I can make any Krenov piece. Thats being a craftsman. I can not design the pieces like he does, that is his art.
Now your entire paragraph except for the last sentence proves my point. You LEARNED from doing it for 5 years at this and then did that. And anyone else can learn to. God gave you what ability that someone else can not learn, name it and I will listen. ANYONE can use the tools in a sequence to perform a stated task. Credit for hard work I do give do. But not credit that you can hold a router a certain way that I can't.
I have made so many pieces and people say I could never do that and I say, yes you can.
If anyone believes you are born with it, then a whole bunch of people here are going to throw in the towel and bail because they failed so many times at a nice project and now you are saying it is a god given gift. They say to themselves "oh I can not do it. I wasn't born with it", bull! Anyone can learn woodworking if they have the desire. And anyone else with two hands have the same gifts, they just have to learn to use them.
When teaching kids woodworking their are always some kids that take to it right away, but I have never ever met a kid I could not teach to become a good woodworker.
Besides, Fred can make anything I can make. His back might hurt more though
Nickao
Send a person to my home and I will teach them. Anyone willing to learn can. My attitude is that a craft as defined is not something that is given at birth, but can be learned. There are certain steps required to do certain projects. You are saying you can do these steps you show in your pictures, etc and some one else can"t. I do not believe that, not for a minute. I am not demeaning you or anyone. But woodworking is just a bunch of steps using tools to create and any one can follow these steps.
No matter how hard I try I can not paint a Mona Lisa. But I definitley could build any furniture piece if by nothing else trial and error. Eventually even the worst woodworker will succeed if he just keeps learning from his mistakes.
My cousin Vince graduated from the Art institute in Chicago and he was born with a gift. He could actually draw perfect portrait of any person at about 8 years old. Some things in art can be taught, but mostly it is a god given talent.
I truly believe in my heart if someone else can build it, then I can build it. I know I can. And if I can, anyone can. I just do not see woodworking like cabinetry and doors and furniture as beyond the learning capabilities of ANYONE willing to try and put forth the effort required.
I can make any Krenov piece. Thats being a craftsman. I can not design the pieces like he does, that is his art.
Now your entire paragraph except for the last sentence proves my point. You LEARNED from doing it for 5 years at this and then did that. And anyone else can learn to. God gave you what ability that someone else can not learn, name it and I will listen. ANYONE can use the tools in a sequence to perform a stated task. Credit for hard work I do give do. But not credit that you can hold a router a certain way that I can't.
I have made so many pieces and people say I could never do that and I say, yes you can.
If anyone believes you are born with it, then a whole bunch of people here are going to throw in the towel and bail because they failed so many times at a nice project and now you are saying it is a god given gift. They say to themselves "oh I can not do it. I wasn't born with it", bull! Anyone can learn woodworking if they have the desire. And anyone else with two hands have the same gifts, they just have to learn to use them.
When teaching kids woodworking their are always some kids that take to it right away, but I have never ever met a kid I could not teach to become a good woodworker.
Besides, Fred can make anything I can make. His back might hurt more though
Nickao
nickao said:
Nick, I spent many years putting guys through an apprenticeship program for auto repair. I worked with them in the shop during the day and taught them in classes in the evening. In all, I probably worked with several dozen guys. I found that I could teach almost all of them to "fix" cars, but the ones that became master mechanics all came with a God-given natural talent. I could usually spot them within the first days of working with them. (Then there were those who never got through the class on how to tie their own shoe laces.
)I think this is true of every trade or skill, you can teach most to work in them, but there will always be those who just naturally soar above the rest.
John
nickao said:
Nick, I don't agree completely. During my years of training guys, I came to the conclusion that some have inborn traits that not only allow them to learn faster, but also go far beyond others at a particular skill. I've watched many a young man work hard at learning to be a top auto mechanic, and never really get there. Then quit in disgust, and go on to become a huge success at something completely different.
I do agree that many of the natural traits that make for a good auto mechanic would also make for a good woodworker, as well as several other skills that involve working with the hands, or with machines. But there are differences. A master woodworker may need skills with a slightly more artistic bent. A master mechanic may need more in the way of analytical skills.
I think we are each born with unique set of talents that will allow us to excel at something (or maybe a few things). If we're lucky, we discover what they are early in life, and go as far as we can with them.
John
Dane
Member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2008
- Messages
- 461
Eiji-
First off, this is a fabulous post. I used to live in San Diego, over on Point Loma, so I envy you the weather I am sure you are having right now to do the work.
I have a couple of questions about your setup. I am getting the chance to set up a new shop and am interested in what you use. First one is what sort of equipment do you use to process your rough stock? i.e. what do you use to face joint and plane your lumber? Second one is, can you tell me a bit about you Jumbo MFTs? What size do you use, how did you get the holes to the right positions (or are they in precise positions?) did you make the top out of MDF? And how flat do you need them to be for the work that you do? I notice that you clamp your panels to them, so I assume they must be pretty flat, how did you achieve that on such a large scale?
Thanks-
First off, this is a fabulous post. I used to live in San Diego, over on Point Loma, so I envy you the weather I am sure you are having right now to do the work.
I have a couple of questions about your setup. I am getting the chance to set up a new shop and am interested in what you use. First one is what sort of equipment do you use to process your rough stock? i.e. what do you use to face joint and plane your lumber? Second one is, can you tell me a bit about you Jumbo MFTs? What size do you use, how did you get the holes to the right positions (or are they in precise positions?) did you make the top out of MDF? And how flat do you need them to be for the work that you do? I notice that you clamp your panels to them, so I assume they must be pretty flat, how did you achieve that on such a large scale?
Thanks-
Dane,Dane said:
Right now I have in the shop a 6" powermatic long bed jointer, a Makita 12" planer, and a Delta Unisaw. I kind of kick myself for getting the powermatic. I should have gotten at least an 8" and Grizzly makes one for a bit less than the price of the Powermatic. I got the makita planer because it got the best reviews at the time and was also the lightest.(I have to move it around a bit, being in a small shop. the Delta is a fine entry level cabinet saw. I had a 50" fence but reduced it to 30" after getting the TS75. I would like to upgrade to the sawstop in the future. That is if I can stop spending so much money on Festool.
On to the MFT the top is 36" x 80" and is 1" MDF. The holes were drilled out using the LR32 and OF1400 with a festool 20mm bit chucked in it. I put a 1/8" roundover around the perimeter and the top of the holes and also chamfered the bottom of the holes so I could get the clamps thru it. The top has to be flat for my work and stay flat. I am in the process of patenting and getting my workbench manufactured for sale at the moment so I will not post any details of it right now. All I can say is that it is not too heavy, folds up completely for transport without removing anything but the top, doubles as a doorbench, and is as rock solid as a traditional workbench. I know you guys must be foaming at the mouth right now. ;D 8)
Eiji
Now that I have routed the 3 panels it comes time for the fun stuff. I wish I had an LS130 for this but looks like I'll get a workout instead.
Pics showing the sanding block that fits in the grooves and how I use it.
Final pic showing the sanded panel to 220.
Pics showing the sanding block that fits in the grooves and how I use it.
Final pic showing the sanded panel to 220.
Time to cut the stub tenons at the top and bottom of the panels.
I make sure to orient and mark the paired panels best view.
The mortises in the rails are 76mm and since the panels are 676mm wide I just measure in 300mm from each side to get centered tenons.
My jigsaw cuts 40mm off the edge of the plastic base so I set the guide rail 30mm from the ends of the raised ribs. That gives me a 10 mm tongue.
Round the tenon to fit the round mortise.
I make sure to orient and mark the paired panels best view.
The mortises in the rails are 76mm and since the panels are 676mm wide I just measure in 300mm from each side to get centered tenons.
My jigsaw cuts 40mm off the edge of the plastic base so I set the guide rail 30mm from the ends of the raised ribs. That gives me a 10 mm tongue.
Round the tenon to fit the round mortise.
