ETS EC 150 vs Mirka DEROS which way would you go?

[Jimmy FineCut]

You answered my questions:

"Clark: I don't know what you mean with your post - did I miss something?

I use a Mirka Deros coupled to a MIDI Vac at work. When the sander turns on/off - the vac turns on/off - there is no reaching around to turn on/off a vac.

The Mirka accepts Festool papers, Mirka papers - and every other paper on the market.
Festool accepts only Festool hole pattern papers.
Dust extraction is equal."

I conclude

The Mirka Deros will work with my Midi
I can buy paper for the Mirka  from any vendor
There is no difference in dust extraction

From others I  have learned the Mirka is lighter and the paddle is regarded as a plus.

Other than yellow clashing with green, the Mirka Deros seems to be a good choice notwithstanding the price of each which no one here seems to care about.

Thanks for the insights.

So did you get the Mirka Deros Clark?

 

[clark_fork]

So did you get the Mirka Deros Clark?

Answer:

Despite the fact that my thrifty New England ancestors are rolling in their graves, I have not yet, but fully intend to go yellow. As a matter of fact, I don't have many friends I would admit to that I bought a $600.00 sander. They would tell me to go hire someone to do my sanding for that price. When I wandered into Festool land, I had no idea I was entering the high rent district and beyond.

For purposes of discussion, with regard to Festool, what are the merits of the 3mm stroke over the 5mm stroke? What is this EC about? Does eccentric refer to the operator?

 

[Holmz]

There is also a 7 or 8 mm stroke RO sanders just to really get you going.

Depends what you are doing really. I hear that the people doing fibreglass like the 7-mm stroke.
So it depends on whether it is more finish or roughing it in.

 

[Steve-Rice]

Interestingly, I came to the opposite conclusion that Clarke did.

Although I've already converted my old DeWalt ROS with an Abranet pad and I love using the Abranet sanding mesh, I'll go with the Festool ETS EC (when finally available in the US) because it has the following advantages over the Mirka Deros:

Vibration control
carbide tipped brake
sleeved hose available
can set up the sander not to start if hose is not attached
Festool build quality and excellent customer service
parts guaranteed for 10 years
30 day return policy.

The only real advantage I can see for the Deros is that it is about .42 pounds lighter than the ETS EC.  While I would definitely prefer the lighter sander for extended work, I've read about a number of people who have had problems with their Mirka sanders and have complained about Mirka's customer service and long turn-around times.  I feel significantly more confident in Festool's build quality and customer service.  It doesn't matter how great your sander is if it doesn't work, so that's enough to push me over the fence in Festool's direction.  I plan to use Abranet sanding mesh on the ETS EC as well. Since I've already donated over $2,000 this year to Festool's retirement fund, I can wait until the ETS EC is available here in the US. 

Just my two cents...

 

[AlexThePalex]

What is this EC about? Does eccentric refer to the operator?

EC does not stand for eccentric.

EC comes from their brushless motors which they call EC-TEC motors, meaning it is a brushless motor with a built in electronic circuit that controls the RPM and keeps it at a constant speed.

E stands for electronic.

C - I am not exactly sure what the C stands for, is could be either Control, Constant or Circuit.

 

[leakyroof]

So did you get the Mirka Deros Clark?

Answer:

Despite the fact that my thrifty New England ancestors are rolling in their graves, I have not yet, but fully intend to go yellow. As a matter of fact, I don't have many friends I would admit to that I bought a $600.00 sander. They would tell me to go hire someone to do my sanding for that price. When I wandered into Festool land, I had no idea I was entering the high rent district and beyond.

For purposes of discussion, with regard to Festool, what are the merits of the 3mm stroke over the 5mm stroke? What is this EC about? Does eccentric refer to the operator?

Generally speaking, you sand to a higher level of finish with the smaller 3mm orbit over the larger 5mm orbit. However, with the right abrasives and the sander in the right hands, the 150/5 can really put out a nice finish.
I finally bought a 150/3 when I wanted to do more stain-finish work around my house on mouldings and other larger pieces. Previously, I had been very happy with my 150/5 for all general sanding needs when it came time to larger areas being covered.
Your choice on what you need most from a sander.  Or you own 10 or 11 of them like I do.......... [embarassed] [embarassed] [embarassed], and you pick the best one for the task at hand.

 

[sae]

What is this EC about? Does eccentric refer to the operator?

EC does not stand for eccentric.

EC comes from their brushless motors which they call EC-TEC motors, meaning it is a brushless motor with a built in electronic circuit that controls the RPM and keeps it at a constant speed.

E stands for electronic.

C - I am not exactly sure what the C stands for, is could be either Control, Constant or Circuit.

EC = electronically commutated. Bosch uses the EC moniker as well.

 

[AlexThePalex]

EC = electronically commutated. Bosch uses the EC moniker as well.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Holmz]

Interestingly, I came to the opposite conclusion that Clarke did.

Although I've already converted my old DeWalt ROS with an Abranet pad and I love using the Abranet sanding mesh, I'll go with the Festool ETS EC (when finally available in the US) because it has the following advantages over the Mirka Deros:

...

The only real advantage I can see for the Deros is that it is about .42 pounds lighter than the ETS EC.  ....

...

The main advantage is that it is available in NA and not a pipe dream for 2016.

There is also the Mafell RO sander. Are they any good?
I was personally leaning towards a Mirka for the weight savings... But standing behind a horizontal lump of wood make weight less of an issue.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Interestingly, I came to the opposite conclusion that Clarke did.

Although I've already converted my old DeWalt ROS with an Abranet pad and I love using the Abranet sanding mesh, I'll go with the Festool ETS EC (when finally available in the US) because it has the following advantages over the Mirka Deros:

Vibration control
carbide tipped brake
sleeved hose available
can set up the sander not to start if hose is not attached
Festool build quality and excellent customer service
parts guaranteed for 10 years
30 day return policy.

Just my two cents...

SteveRice: I don't know if I buy into your conclusions based on the following (remember that I went from Mirka Deros to ETS EC 5 and actually use both).

Looking at your list, not in order;

* 30 day return policy: why would I need that for the Mirka if you need the sander and it is considered one of the best sanders available? No need for try and buy on a professional machine that is a proven machine and no lesser a machine than Festool.
If it is broke they will fix it in any case. If it is a DOA machine I will get a new one. With Festool I don't get a new machine if DOA and it is registered!

EDIT: In Sweden, for some obscure reason we only get a 15 day return policy!!! I meant to return one machine but it turned out that there is no 30 day return policy in Sweden for Festool, only 15 days. Why? I don't know.

* Vibration Control: I find that the Mirka has about the same low level of vibration as the ETS EC. They are (effectively) both vibration controlled.

* Sleeved hose available: sure, but at what cost!?? It is an accessory. En expensive one to boot. You can even get it in a Systainer. An expensive hose in a Systainer???

*Can set up the sander to not start when a hose is not attached: totally unnecessary feature. Really. Probably more cause for frustration than not.

*Festool build quality and excellent customer service:
I really disagree on this one. My new RTS400 sander was faulty. New, and faulty. Out of all my tool brands I have used Festool actually tops the statistics on faulty machines by a far margin! I still stick with them but I use the 30 day return policy more to have an option to return faulty tools and not to try them out. Out of some 25 Festool machines over the years I have had 5 lemons. Thats a 20% fault rate!  I bet Mirka has a lower fault rate. The build quality of the Mirka Deros is first rate.

*Festool service/repair: I am on good foot with two Festool dealerships and they cover for me - when Festool does not. One month repair time and no loaner, repairs returned without being fixed, demo guys that know less about the machines than I do etc etc.
Festool service is sub par in Sweden.

*Parts guaranteed for 10 years: that is great!
But - what good is that if they don't have parts in stock? Happened to me, five weeks delay due to not having the electronic circuitboard in stock...

I don't expect my daily use machines to last that long though and there is usually new products coming along to replace a four-five year old machine. I have a Bosch jigsaw that is roughly fourteen years old and is still serviceable.

*Carbid tipped brake: Yes, kind of nice, actually.
Mirka does not take long to stop though. It is not a deal breaker.

I chose the ETS EC for the Plug it option as I use it at a work station in the work shop. I can't plug it convert the Mirka Deros. If I could I would never have bought the ETS EC as I think the Mirka is better, ergonomically and finish quality is equal.

Thats my two cents gents.  [smile]

PS
I hope I don't come off sour with my list, just telling it like I see it, nobody has to agree.

I would also add that the ergonomics are (for me) slightly in favour of the Mirka Deros, I find the Deros more tactile for sanding between coats.

 

[Steve-Rice]

Henrik,

Thank you for your reply.  I found your comments regarding Festool's build quality and service very surprising.  I only have three Festool tools (Domino DF500, TS 55 REQ and Carvex PS 420) and all of them have been excellent machines. I have not read of people having Festool service problems here in the U.S., but I have read several negative comments about Mirka service here.  I'm wondering if the main difference in service is our respective locations.

In any event, I genuinely appreciate your feedback.

Thank you,

Steve Rice

 

[clark_fork]

Mellow Yellow

The Mirka arrived and I could not be more pleased. I don't think it has been mentioned that the Mirka Systainer fits the Festool Systainer.

The hand grip is comfortable, there is little vibration and compared to my old Bosch, a pleasure to use. I like the straight forward plug in. My Midi hose fit easily. The variable speed is a great feature. There is an on/off switch in addition to the paddle. 

I have to get  used to the paddle. It seemed a little light and I will worry about dropping from any height.

I have hearing aids so a word to wise about sound level before it is too late. The Mirka is quiet but still please always use hearing protection.

So far, I am happy as a clam with my Mirka DEROS.

Tool Nut was out of stock so I purchased via Amazon Prime for the $595.00 advertised price.

[attachimg=1]

Mellow Yellow meets Soylent Green

[attachimg=2]

Before and After The Bosch was a vibrating viper.

 

[Holmz]

Henrik,

Thank you for your reply.  I found your comments regarding Festool's build quality and service very surprising.  I only have three Festool tools (Domino DF500, TS 55 REQ and Carvex PS 420) and all of them have been excellent machines. I have not read of people having Festool service problems here in the U.S., but I have read several negative comments about Mirka service here.  I'm wondering if the main difference in service is our respective locations.

In any event, I genuinely appreciate your feedback.

Thank you,

Steve Rice

Really?  ???
There are bunch on Carvex, the routers, rails bowed, track-saws not square... etc.

Granted complaints are about the tools, and the good tools end up being posts of pictures of finished projects more than raves about the tools.

Back to the yellow sander, it has a formula 1 look to it with the low center of gravity (CoM).

Just to round out the color pallet - The red EVA150 seems worth a look as well.
The main reason I would be considering the yellow Mirka (Over the red one) is ergonomics and weight. (As the other features seem about '==')

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Clark Fork: it is nice to have some mellow yellow in the midst of all soylent green - had a nice chuckle over that.
Glad you took the plunge. Easier to spot the systainer too...

Holmz: Yes, ergo and weight, all other things being == .

Steve Rice: you are welcome! Mirka is not that common over here so by default service is harder to find. You have to go through your dealership and I find the dealerships are often the bottleneck of customer service. I have good report with Mirka dealership and excellent report with Festool dealership. Bosch sales and tech reps are fantastic but service is not as good, over here. But the dealership covers for me on both Festool and Bosch. The dealership often registers the Festool machine for us in Sweden but I always make sure they DON'T so I can check the machine before registering it and if it is faulty (remember those five lemons) I simply hand it back and try another unit until I am pleased and then I register and feel like I am covered by the Festool insurance should something happen further down the line.

I was surprised to learn about Festool shortcomings myself a few years ago but now I know that they are real and there is an abundance of Festool complaints regarding some of the tools and tool accessories. Don't mention the Jacobs chuck.

The Festool machines that _are_ working as advertised are fantastic. Under my signature you will find what I use - not even all Festools I currently own and/or have used aren't listed. Some of the tools are stand outs, like the OFK500, OF1010 and the DF500 and some of the screwdriver/drills. I would not exchange them for anything.

I think Festool has lost some of the mojo over the last couple of years. Competition has been catching up on the bread and butter machines and service, innovation and build quality on new products has gone down. Festool superb build quality is a myth. I am not saying that they are worse than any other brand I just find them slightly behind some of the competition. I have had a fairly equal share of (Blue, not green) Bosch and Festool machines over the years and I have had ONE Bosch dud and five Festool duds.  I don't trust the electronics on the tools as much as I would like to.

But I am still a Fan, although a seasoned Fan.

I am glad you are happy with the Carvex, I was disappointed with mine and went back to Bosch (GST 18V Li barrel grip) which serves me better. I went past the return period with the Festool, trying hard to like it but every time I reached for the Bosch I thought "this one is simply better for me". 

Tools are exchangeable and there is no single brand that covers all bases and though I find that that I often post to critique tools I never do that talk down a brand, it is simply telling it like it is mixed with the frustration of paying for high end gear that turns out to be mid tier, at best.  I could mix it up with some praise for the great machines but I honestly expect high end wood working tools to work great, not just good.

With Festool I have been on/off over the years but I am neck deep in the system now and that makes me even more disappointed if the tools / new releases don't fit me/meet my requirements.  Especially now with battery tools maturing to the point of really replacing corded tools.  If any other brand does that it does not bother me that much if I haven't invested in a system. Makes sense?

 

[Steve-Rice]

Clark,

Congrats on your new Mirka Deros.  Did you get the 5" or the 6"?

I understand that in Europe Mirka offers a Deros package with both 5" and 6" base pads. Do you know if the U.S. version can accept both base pads as well? I'm guessing the sander is the same whether you purchase the 5" or the 6" version and just the base pads are different.  Does that sound right to you?

Thanks and best of luck with your new purchase. 

 

[sae]

US one doesn't.

Never found a clear explanation on why, either.

 

[teocaf]

yeah, let's not forget Kate Hudson and Kate Bosworth...

nice looking Mirka, Clark.  I'm looking for one of those myself in the coming months.  Let us know how it holds up.  Shop looks like....well, let's just say that I'm not making a connection between it and tools that come with a super nice vac and in containers that makes organization a breeze.  On the plus side, you probably get some great exercise jumping through the obstacle course...

 

[nickao]

1)
Henrik which is more powerful, I am looking for the answer on which is more powerful. If you had to hog material and couldn't reach for another sander between the two which would win?

"I chose the ETS EC for the Plug it option as I use it at a work station in the work shop. I can't plug it convert the Mirka Deros. If I could I would never have bought the ETS EC as I think the Mirka is better, ergonomically and finish quality is equal.

2) So you think the Mirka is better, but WHY - other than feel? Your comments really don't mention power, swirl marks etc.

 

[Holmz]

Almost all sanders do the job. The 45$ 5" Bosch sands just fine for swirmarks and power.

 

[nickao]

Almost all sanders do the job. The 45$ 5" Bosch sands just fine for swirmarks and power.

All sanders dont do the job, not even close. If they did zero people would pay 600.00 for a sander!  I do woodworking for a living and if my RO broke I would have to buy a new one that day, not use my little 5" palm sander. The little 5" Bosch is a toy compared to an ETS 150 or RO 150. And the 45.00 Bosch version has ZERO power and it isn't worthy of this thread and neither is the Festool ETS 125 for that matter. That sander is simply in  a different category.

I'll await Henriks or any other person response that has actually used these two sanders.