ETS EC150/5 Strange problem

[boboettinger]

I have an ETS EC150/5 thats driving me crazy. As soon as I turn it on it trips a GFI breaker in my electrical panel not related to the sander. It is the only tool in my shop that does this and it trips this breaker no matter what circuit it is plugged into, anywhere in the house. It does not blow the circuit breaker for the circuit it is plugged into and works fine. The breaker it trips is connected to my pool pump and chlorine generator only. Not related at all.

I sent the sander to Festool who said it is fine, but changed the electronics when I explained the problem. When I got it back I still have the same problem.

Any thoughts?

 

[afish]

Thats odd, have you tried pluging the sander into a ct? does it still trip ?

 

[tsmi243]

Call an electrician.  You have a house problem. 

 

[AlexThePalex]

Yes, the problem lies in your house. No outside appliance should be able to trip a totally unrelated breaker on a different circuit.

 

[Alanbach]

I agree that this is not a sander problem but a problem with the wiring in your house. Someone probably accidentally shared a wire from the GFI circuit with another circuit. The electronics in the sander may exacerbate the situation but almost certainly not the primary cause.

 

[Cheese]

I’d put in a new pool pump breaker. Must be RF sensitive for some reason.

It’s not an AFCI breaker is it?

 

[boboettinger]

The reason I suspected the tool is this is the only thing that trips the breaker. I have tried plugging it into my MIDI, and every circuit in the house. The breaker is a 20 amp double pole gfi breaker connected to the panel and the breakers neutral (white wire) is hooked up to the neutral bar in the panel. I have not tried a new breaker (>$150.00), but that’s my next step.

Thanks for your responses!

 

[mino]

The reason I suspected the tool is this is the only thing that trips the breaker. I have tried plugging it into my MIDI, and every circuit in the house. The breaker is a 20 amp double pole gfi breaker connected to the panel and the breakers neutral (white wire) is hooked up to the neutral bar in the panel. I have not tried a new breaker (>$150.00), but that’s my next step.

Thanks for your responses!

ETS EC is a doubale-insulated UNEARTHED tool. So it really cannot trigger a (properly working) GFI "breaker" which actually no "breaker" but a ground circuit detector.

What a GFI/GCFI does is it detects if all the current going via the L wire comes "back" via the N wire. Yeah it is a vector sum, so simplified it..
The only case a Class II device like the ETS EC 150 should trip a GCFI device is if there was a short-circuit to earth from its chassis. That is like "never". While the ETS EC chassis is conductive to be anti-static, I do not believe it can guide the 30mA needed even IF there was a fault in the tool.

Best try getting an electrical inspector with proper measuring equipment check your wiring as this smells like a failing GCFI device. If it is so you want to replace it sooner rather than later. The GCFI devices are pretty sensitive so when they start failing they can act "erratic". Unlike a failing breaker which either does not trip when is should or cannot be put back one after a trip.

 

[boboettinger]

Thank You!

 

[Tim23]

boboettinger, did you ever figure this issue out.  I am having a similar issue.

When using my new ETS EC 150/3 it trips a GFI on another circuit. It is the only tool in my shop that does so.  ETS 125 is fine, Kapex is fine, sawstop etc...

The GFI that trips (on different breaker same sub panel) has 2 Kohler electronic shower valves plugged into them, the circuit continues into the bathroom for some led lights and fan.

ETS on shop circuit, trips GFI when shower valves are plugged in
ETS on shop circuit - does not trip GFI when shower valves are not plugged in
ETS on the GFI circuit - trips  when shower valves are plugged in
ETS on GFI circuit - does NOT trip when no shower valves

Now to add to this strange issue,  when tryin to figure out what was causing random GFI trips, I ended up putting a 2nd GFI in the bathroom that then powers the lights thinking it was one of the led drivers.    This GFI never trips,, even though they are on the same circuit.  I would think if I had a ground and neutral touching in the sub panel both GFIs on that circuit would trip..

I tested a bunch of other circuits also sharing the sub panel and main panel.. and it only seems to be the 1 circuit and the one GFI with  only with the shower valves...

I did take out the first GFI that was only 3 years old, and put a brand new one in a few days ago, so not the GFI.

Wondering if you figured it out.. would help me greatly if you did, so I can solve this.

 

[mino]

Given you need both the shower valves *and* another device to observe the issue, it is likely these devices are interacting over the higher harmonics in some way. You may even have residual currents flowing though the N and ground wires in obscure paths that the *grounded*-as-antistatic ETS EC closes.

As above, you need a senior electrician *with proper equipment* go over and measure the stuff to figure it out.

Just "looking at it" is as good as us speculating here on a woodworkng forum..

As for the "the GFCI device was only 3 yrs old" that realy does not say anything. Unfortunately. It can easily be a bad design of the GFCI device - i.e. it will trip "by design" when it should not. OR anything in between. Including failty electonics in either of the devices.

That whole thing "it is on another circuit" does not really work with these kinds of issues as the problem is *not* current-based but about the higher harmonics, non-full-wave transients etc. Another problem may be a bad connections somewhere, a bad ground etc. The list goes on.

At the end of the day, part of the problem is people "shoving" GFCI devices all over the place WITHOUT understanding their limitations. And by "people" I mean electricians who just blindly go by the generalist regulations, without reading the small print nor truly understanding them. As in 90% of the electricians around. Sadly.

One thing to try is to use the ETS EC without the vac hose or with non-antistatic hose. But again, these things are about measure, measure, measure. No true "remote" help possible.