I was about to pull the trigger on an ETS 150/5. Then found out about the Mirka Ceros... Hate to step out of the Festool system but that Ceros looks awesome. And as I was about to ask the FOG people about ETS vs Ceros... I see that the thread about new tools has a new "ETS EC" in Europe that is apparently competing with the Ceros. No ETA in the US yet (ugh!). Confused about what to do. How long would the wait be for the ETS EC to make it state-side??
ETS vs Ceros??? vs new ETS EC???
- Thread starter fp1337
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The beauty of the Mirka sanders is the progressive paddle switch, emulating the control you would find on an air sander. It means you can adjust the speed on the fly, without fiddling with little knobs. For example, you're sanding a large, flat surface and you come up to a corner you want to bevel slightly. Release the paddle to about 20%, touch up the edge, and continue onto the next face, in the same smooth motion.
I watched Peter Parfitt's review of the ETS-EC, and I'm not sure what it brings to the table, frankly. For double the price of the ETS or the same price as the Deros, what are we getting? I'm not sure anyone is leaning heavily on their ETS to need anti-launch protection, it is a finish sander, no? Have there been a rash of launched ETSs? Automatic shutdown when the hose falls off? Woooo. :
The ETS is decent value for the money, the ETS-EC continues to baffle me.
I watched Peter Parfitt's review of the ETS-EC, and I'm not sure what it brings to the table, frankly. For double the price of the ETS or the same price as the Deros, what are we getting? I'm not sure anyone is leaning heavily on their ETS to need anti-launch protection, it is a finish sander, no? Have there been a rash of launched ETSs? Automatic shutdown when the hose falls off? Woooo. :
The ETS is decent value for the money, the ETS-EC continues to baffle me.
petertheeater
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To my mind, what the ETS EC brings to the table is its light weight as well as the excellent extraction it can be used vertically for edge sanding. This was exactly why I purchased it. I have heavier more brutal sanders for the donkey work. It has become my most used sander for sanding wood.
I have to admit that I find it a little disingenuous of Mirka to not at least include a "* Does not include required external DC power supply" when they discuss size or weight comparisons to other sanders that don't require an external power supply. I definitely see why they separated it, as it does result in much smaller "work" unit, but I think it warrants pointing out in their comparisons.
elfick said:
Why? You're not carrying the power supply with the same hand you're sanding with, it doesn't wear on you, doesn't factor into the usability or ergonomics, etc.
Regardless, the Deros is still lighter than the ETS-EC, and has an onboard power supply if the direct comparison really bothers you.
Christopher Fitch
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I have a CEROS...I really like it.
I have to admit that this is one of the most confusing woodworking tool categories in my case. What you never see:
an all in one sander that can even do power sanding from start to finish even within one size category. Obviously if you are confronted with sanding tasks across a range of sizes, you are most definitely going to need multiple sanders. But to not be able to let grits get you through one job with one sander that is perfect for that job seems a bit much.
But what is confusing is that it is even difficult to see what compliments what!
I most often see the Ceros mentioned as an adjunct to something like a Rotex sander. But why???? Because the you can't keep the Rotex flat enough to take you all the way through the job??? Is that it? Well if that is it, then it really does beg the question, what the heck is the Rotex really doing for you that another sander can't once you get past the elegant integration with the Festool Dust Extractors? I also see some of the other Festool sanders mentioned as an adjunct to a Rotex.
Then I sometimes see the Ceros mentioned in such a way to suggest maybe it can do a complete job of sanding at least within specific size constraints. 3" for a certain size constraint, 5" for this sort of job, 6" for that sort of job....maybe one of those and a delta and your done...maybe.
Is the real fly in the ointment trying too hard to shoehorn the Rotex into the mix when there are simply better sanders out there unless you have specific need for Rotex mode? I can see that driving you to a Rotex.
an all in one sander that can even do power sanding from start to finish even within one size category. Obviously if you are confronted with sanding tasks across a range of sizes, you are most definitely going to need multiple sanders. But to not be able to let grits get you through one job with one sander that is perfect for that job seems a bit much.
But what is confusing is that it is even difficult to see what compliments what!
I most often see the Ceros mentioned as an adjunct to something like a Rotex sander. But why???? Because the you can't keep the Rotex flat enough to take you all the way through the job??? Is that it? Well if that is it, then it really does beg the question, what the heck is the Rotex really doing for you that another sander can't once you get past the elegant integration with the Festool Dust Extractors? I also see some of the other Festool sanders mentioned as an adjunct to a Rotex.
Then I sometimes see the Ceros mentioned in such a way to suggest maybe it can do a complete job of sanding at least within specific size constraints. 3" for a certain size constraint, 5" for this sort of job, 6" for that sort of job....maybe one of those and a delta and your done...maybe.
Is the real fly in the ointment trying too hard to shoehorn the Rotex into the mix when there are simply better sanders out there unless you have specific need for Rotex mode? I can see that driving you to a Rotex.
The Rotex will run through rough stock removal all the way through finish sanding right up to polishing. You can find several videos on youtube demonstrating it. Some people like to compliment it with another sander for ergonomic (tool weight) reasons and some perhaps for efficiency (stock removal rate control) reasons, but the Rotex will do it all.jnug said:
jnug said:
The Rotex tries to span the gap of a rotary sander and a random orbital by having two modes. The higher rotation speed of the geared rotex mode just does everything quicker. It means you can go at it quickly, but also avoid swirl marks. Sometimes quicker isn't what you want, so you have that option as well.
The sacrifice is then weight. The RO150 is heavy, so it'll never be a stand in for a ETS or a Mirka sander.
The Ceros/Deros won't replace the high speed, aggressive removal of a RO150, it's much closer to a replacement for an ETS than an RO.
If Festool made a rotex only mode sander, and cut some weight and size off the RO150, I would pick one up in a hurry.
Christopher Fitch
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I have a RO 125, an ES 125 (that I have never been pleased with) and a CEROS.
Can the RO 125 do it all? Sure...but as others have pointed out, it's heavy and at least for me, it's very aggressive. Even taking into account the aggressive nature of my RO 125, I've still had issues with sanding too much while working on pieces. For finer sanding tasks, I prefer to use a smaller finer sander so I use another. In my case, I tried the CEROS and I like it.
If someone else can just use a Rotex for all their sanding needs, then great for them. For me, I like two sanders....that's it in a nutshell.
Can the RO 125 do it all? Sure...but as others have pointed out, it's heavy and at least for me, it's very aggressive. Even taking into account the aggressive nature of my RO 125, I've still had issues with sanding too much while working on pieces. For finer sanding tasks, I prefer to use a smaller finer sander so I use another. In my case, I tried the CEROS and I like it.
If someone else can just use a Rotex for all their sanding needs, then great for them. For me, I like two sanders....that's it in a nutshell.
I don't know about any of the other sanders, but I bought the ETS150/5 during the reconditioned sale for 30% off. I think it is one of the best sanders I've ever used. There is no vibration and it's just heavy enough that it really only requires steering, just gliding across the wood surface. Used with my CT48 there is no dust that I can see. So for flat surfaces (other than very small flat surfaces), I would use this sander. I have seen posts indicating that the 150/5 leaves swirl marks which are noticeable when staining (if you are staining the wood) but, so far, I have not noticed this. I do also have an ETS125 which I do use for the last 1 or 2 grits before finishing, but I don't think I'd hesitate to use the ETS150/5 from 80 - 220 or 320. I love it.
I know that you can handle your project from beginning to end with the Rotex. But can you do it WELL? Not in my opinion. The lack of balance on any Rotex (I have the Ro 90) means that you will end up gouging the wood, even minimally. Once you spray a coat of paint or clear coat, you will instantly realize it instantly.
I don't think this should be said categorically as the ability to keep the pad parallel with the surface depends on the user. Also note that you are basing your statement on the Rotex with the smallest surface area which would be the most difficult to keep parallel. I have a 150 with a hard pad and it is dead simple to keep parallel. That isn't to say they are the best balanced sanders out there, but I find it to be quite manageable.fp1337 said:
PreferrablyWood
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I bought the Festoo RS300 EQl Sander for fine finishing the RS 300 EQ is built like a tank and easy to control, I have a Metabo 125/5 random orbit, and 80mm metabo both good and durable last purchase was the Festool R0 90 which i am going to using for paint removal, prep work this coming week.
If I was going to get a 150mm disk sander I'd go for the new ETS EC version because of the improved ergonomics , I know about the mirka my neighbour bought one, it is great, but more expensive, and not in the Festool system, he recommended I just keep with the Festools, seems there was issues with the Mirkas backing pads, which were expensive and wear out too fast. For Fast material removal I find the Metabo 125 and the R0 90 are more than adequate for my needs..
If I was going to get a 150mm disk sander I'd go for the new ETS EC version because of the improved ergonomics , I know about the mirka my neighbour bought one, it is great, but more expensive, and not in the Festool system, he recommended I just keep with the Festools, seems there was issues with the Mirkas backing pads, which were expensive and wear out too fast. For Fast material removal I find the Metabo 125 and the R0 90 are more than adequate for my needs..
People use sanders for different purposes. For me, I almost never end up with a product that requires leveling via a sander. If that occurs, I will find some other way to take care of tha before sanding. Therefore, I use my sanders for preparing the wood for finishing and would never really use the aggressive mode of a Rotex. I just don't need it. Others use the Rotex because they have a need for that more aggressive action. I am perfectly happy with using the ETS150/5 and ETS125. (Well, maybe the ETS125 is not quite as satisfying so I bought a DTS40 for finish sanding lately, but would still wouldn't need the Rotex).
So assuming somebody does have a Rotex of some sort does an ETS125 EQ make a better mate for finish sanding or an RTS400 EQ?
or in fact is one better served with an ETS 150/3 to pick up where the Rotex will more often than not leave you off.
Can you mention why you found that ETS125 EQ lacking as a finish sander? I would have thought that would have been a solid finish sanding compliment.
or in fact is one better served with an ETS 150/3 to pick up where the Rotex will more often than not leave you off.
Can you mention why you found that ETS125 EQ lacking as a finish sander? I would have thought that would have been a solid finish sanding compliment.
