Euro pricing vs. US Pricing
- Thread starter hobbes
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Hi everyone . . . I just joint this group . . . I am new with festool . . . and I live in Australia . . . and I hope I am still within the topic.
Seems here is Australia we have similar situation with N.Zealand, where the prices in Australia are almost double than that of the US. With the current currency rate difference between US and Australia (1 : 0.9715) it would be an advantage to order from the US (if this is allowed).
With this situation I am thinking the possibility of ordering TS55, OF1400 and ETS150 from the US. Here they all costs AU$ 2,620 and in the US its US$ 1,570 (or AU$ 1,525). I presume if we add the shipping cost it won't reach/exceed the Australian price.
My concern is, are there any spec difference between US product and Australia product? Will it affect the warranty here?
Just would like to share with anyone of any advantages and disadvantages going this way.
Cheers,
Ricsun
Seems here is Australia we have similar situation with N.Zealand, where the prices in Australia are almost double than that of the US. With the current currency rate difference between US and Australia (1 : 0.9715) it would be an advantage to order from the US (if this is allowed).
With this situation I am thinking the possibility of ordering TS55, OF1400 and ETS150 from the US. Here they all costs AU$ 2,620 and in the US its US$ 1,570 (or AU$ 1,525). I presume if we add the shipping cost it won't reach/exceed the Australian price.
My concern is, are there any spec difference between US product and Australia product? Will it affect the warranty here?
Just would like to share with anyone of any advantages and disadvantages going this way.
Cheers,
Ricsun
Kev
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Ricsun said:
Hi Ricsun,
On the surface there would seem to be a lot of advantage - but it isn't that simple. Shipping isn't cheap - that trio could easily cost $200 to ship. Over $1000 and you're paying duty on it too.
Now you have 110 volt tools with no local warranty (nobody here gets a sales margin from your deal - so you can understand a reluctance).
I also doubt the 30 day sale or return US policy would apply if shipped overseas (regardless - you're actual use window would be short considering shipping time both ways).
There are model differences too and local compliance issues/potentials (so if you're taking the tools "on site" ... beware).
Consider TS 55 EQ and TS 55 EBQ (I think there's extra smarts in the "B" version we get for braking).
The tools that come out of Europe are a better comparison and the UK is the most viable ... but shipping, duty, warranty and support are all negatives if you buy out of country.
I thought about this long and hard ... but it's a false economy - particularly when I factor in the local support I get from my dealer.
Another thing to consider is what do you do about the big items you will eventually want ... CT26/36, KAPEX, MFT/3 ... etc - they're way too big to try and save on via an OS purchase unless you have a friend back filling a container.
To this you need to factor in risk (shipping, time, potential claims, etc) and whether or not a legitimate US dealer will even participate in your transaction ... or be permitted by Festool. Remember Festool US is Festool HO owned, unlike Oz distribution.
...
Regardless of the "market stories" people like to believe about the power of the US buying public ... relative US pricing is being pushed low by Festool HO to drive market share ... for this the US people get some significant carrots, a narrow product range, much delayed releases and some less featured models.
Don't know about down-under but at least the Finnish Festool importer was happy enough to take my warranty registration for Festools I ordered from the UK. So my understanding is that the Festool warranty is international without limitations to where you bought it. Of course getting support & spare parts for 110V/60Hz tools in Europe would be hard since we run 230V/50Hz so ordering from the US is not an viable option even thou one could theoretically run them off voltage converters.
Please correct me if I'm wrong - haven't had a Festool break on me yet so haven't tried how well the warranty works in reality. Here the dealers don't do support anyway so the only support you are going to get if directly from the importer.
Please correct me if I'm wrong - haven't had a Festool break on me yet so haven't tried how well the warranty works in reality. Here the dealers don't do support anyway so the only support you are going to get if directly from the importer.
Kev,
I guess you are right . . . too many obstacles are involved and especially if you have to deal with a dealer where you didn't bought from before.
Thanks for the info. I just found a dealer here in Brookvale NSW they are very informative and helpfull. Better build relationship rather having difficulty later on.
Ricsun
I guess you are right . . . too many obstacles are involved and especially if you have to deal with a dealer where you didn't bought from before.
Thanks for the info. I just found a dealer here in Brookvale NSW they are very informative and helpfull. Better build relationship rather having difficulty later on.
Ricsun
ccarrolladams
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Ricsun said:
There is also the issue of Festool franchise control. Generally Festool dealers are prohibited from shipping outside the territory of their franchise.
Canada is served by Festool USA, but USA dealers cannot ship to Canada and vice versa. In NA Festools for Canada and USA pass the same safety tests, since Canada delegated UL in the USA do CSA testing. Both USA and Canada use single phase grounded 115 v power, in shops and on site. In most jurisdictions in the USA an employer would be prohibited from allowing an employee to use hand-held 220v tools.
Festool has every right, under international customs and trademark laws, to prohibit "grey market" products. Those are Festools intended for one country being sold in an unauthorized country at a price lower than set by the authorized importer.
What will be the reaction of Australian customs be when a bunch of Festool products show up in your country? Could it be they will expect to be paid for duty? Could there also be substantial fines for attempting to avoid duties?
Kev
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Ricsun said:
You're talking to Rod and Darren - tell them Kev said to look after you [big grin]
They're good guys. They play very straight, but will go out of their way to support you. There's a couple of mobs to avoid - drop me a pm if you feel you need the detail.
ccarrolladams said:
The reaction by customs for products coming in to country's is simple in most cases "charge duty". I don't see where ther is an attempt to avoid duty?
This is not like the US where many people evade paying sales tax. Since the goods HAVE to clear customs when being shipped in avoiding/evading duty is not simple.
FWIW I often get goods shipped from overseas.
ccarrolladams
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Jerome said:
Jerome,
How often have you personally attempted to import anything into Australia?
By the way, how much personal experience to you have living in one USA state and purchasing from another state to avoid sales/use tax?
And you?ccarrolladams said:
In what way is that relevant?
All the usual shippers will clear goods through customs. There may well be no duty to pay. That is not avoidance.
If you read through the threads on this board you will find that it is clearly given as the reason for buying from an out of state supplier in some of them. .ccarrolladams said:
I do not suggest that you evade tax in that way. However some people not only do but make public that they do.
YMMV
Europe adds another layer of complexity --- something that nothing to do with taxes, exchange rates, trade. The things discussed here ignore the background of safety regulations in Europe. Those regs require that the people who sell machine tools must be trained technicians. The company must educate and then monitor everyone it's sales network. The law requires that the sale cannot be concluded until the buyer is given a proper demonstration of the equipment.
And of course this demo needs to emphasize safety, rather than tool features. Every manufacturer of tools in Europe faces this (at least for gear sold in Europe). This leads to infinitely greater buyer satisfaction, as well as safety. And, as you would guess, it costs money. Exports to the rest of the world are thus much more convenient and cheaper to Festool. This information was revealed in 2006 when rumors were flying about the intro of the new Domino machine. It was held up a long time by UL in the United States and by the CSA in Canada. Reps from Festool told the audience in North America to be happy. Their Euro brethren pay significantly higher prices.
Those safety regs are the reason I bought a Swiss tablesaw. Superb safety and top notch engineering. And don't get me started on American tool makers. Ugh!
And of course this demo needs to emphasize safety, rather than tool features. Every manufacturer of tools in Europe faces this (at least for gear sold in Europe). This leads to infinitely greater buyer satisfaction, as well as safety. And, as you would guess, it costs money. Exports to the rest of the world are thus much more convenient and cheaper to Festool. This information was revealed in 2006 when rumors were flying about the intro of the new Domino machine. It was held up a long time by UL in the United States and by the CSA in Canada. Reps from Festool told the audience in North America to be happy. Their Euro brethren pay significantly higher prices.
Those safety regs are the reason I bought a Swiss tablesaw. Superb safety and top notch engineering. And don't get me started on American tool makers. Ugh!
extiger said:
I used an Inca 10" table saw for over 30 years and after buying my Powermatic 66 I realize that I gave up accuracy for pounds of cast iron. I sold that Inca for the same price I bought it for but If I had a bigger shop, I would still own it today.
Kev
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extiger said:
So how does that work with an online or telephone order? You can't tell us everyone walks into a shop to buy.
... and that reasoning doesn't hold with higher price points outside of Europe and the US. Further, this would be a uniform overhead and make cheap tools even less attractive as they would be attracting the same unit $ overhead to my understanding.
ccarrolladams
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extiger said:
What an excellent theory. EU regulations allow CMS and open electric chain saws, yet expect every sales associate of every dealer to deliver a meaningful safety briefing?
How long has Canada delegated the testing formerly performed by CSA to UL?
Bottom lines is that EU and UL/CSA cannot stop idiots from injuring themselves by misuse of tools.
AlexThePalex
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extiger said:
I never heard of this before. What's your source on this?
When I used to work in a hardware store and sold my fair share or power tools to customers here in Finland I've never heard of any such regulation in the EU. ???
I would tell the customer the ins and outs of the tools they were interested in and tried to understand what they were going to use it for and attempt to direct their purchase towards the right tool rather than the most expensive one on the shelf (we rarely work on comission here so no stress there). Usually the presentation did involve safety instructions and best practise advice, but I was never required by the shop owner to give tool safety lessons to the customers.
Nor have I gotten a single safety lecture from any hardware store sales person including my local Festool reseller.
At least in the Nordic countries it is expected in general that you take your chances, you use your tools, don't come back suing anyone because it was the tools fault that you cut your fingers off.
(You can't sue anyone for your own dumbness here, nor will you be awarded any significant money even if you do win a court case in a case that is accepted into court since our legal system is based on fair and realistic damage amounts that is determined by the judge - not the sum the plaintiff's lawer happens to dream up [tongue])
I would tell the customer the ins and outs of the tools they were interested in and tried to understand what they were going to use it for and attempt to direct their purchase towards the right tool rather than the most expensive one on the shelf (we rarely work on comission here so no stress there). Usually the presentation did involve safety instructions and best practise advice, but I was never required by the shop owner to give tool safety lessons to the customers.
Nor have I gotten a single safety lecture from any hardware store sales person including my local Festool reseller.
At least in the Nordic countries it is expected in general that you take your chances, you use your tools, don't come back suing anyone because it was the tools fault that you cut your fingers off.
(You can't sue anyone for your own dumbness here, nor will you be awarded any significant money even if you do win a court case in a case that is accepted into court since our legal system is based on fair and realistic damage amounts that is determined by the judge - not the sum the plaintiff's lawer happens to dream up [tongue])
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