European Festool tools used in US?
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sigmatango
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Question. How would one get a European Festool product here in NA? Amazon?
There's a few sources. Fleabay (suffix .de, not .com) is one, then there's online retailers. Some are better geared up for international trade than others, having Anglo translated websites. Look for a "sprachwechsel" or maybe just "sprach", or even a German flag button or symbol to click to change.
A few key Kraut words will help your search: if you see a couple of dots over a word it's a German "umlaught" over a "U" type "ue" into Google, over an "A" becomes "ae", a "squiggle" under a funny looking "S" is typed as a "ss".
Sander is schleifer, saw is saege, angle grinder winkelschleifer, router oberfraese, drill bohrer etc. All pretty basic stuff. After all English is nowt but a dialect of German anyway.
France, Belgium, Italy & the UK are also reasonably reliable sources of Euro tools too. Just make sure they don't charge you the local Tax (called VAT, GST, UMWST and various other names also). Some less reputable outlets are either too lazy or maybe of dubious integrity and either don't fill out the necessary paperwork to deduct local sales taxes or they may even pocket the tax themselves!
One of the cheapest & most reliable sources of tools has for me been toolstop dot com, from Scotland, who are etrade literate enough to quote sale prices, freight etc in my own local currency, although I've noticed that postage prices have increased substantially recently. Amazing service but. A 36v battery lawnmower & SDS drill delivered from Scotland to Tasmania in about 5 days! Quicker (& cheaper) than OZ Post's interstate deliveries!
Google (& a currency converter) is your friend in shopping around for cheap prices in Europe.
A cautionary word is probably due here: most manufacturer's warranties will not cross International borders. If your tool becomes ill, it must be returned (unmodified, not even the power plug) to the retailer of origin, PLUS you'll be up for 2-way freight for even warranty repairs. Even out of warranty, don't expect the local distributor/supplier to carry foreign parts for your tool either. You'll need to source all "unique" parts overseas too!
A few key Kraut words will help your search: if you see a couple of dots over a word it's a German "umlaught" over a "U" type "ue" into Google, over an "A" becomes "ae", a "squiggle" under a funny looking "S" is typed as a "ss".
Sander is schleifer, saw is saege, angle grinder winkelschleifer, router oberfraese, drill bohrer etc. All pretty basic stuff. After all English is nowt but a dialect of German anyway.
France, Belgium, Italy & the UK are also reasonably reliable sources of Euro tools too. Just make sure they don't charge you the local Tax (called VAT, GST, UMWST and various other names also). Some less reputable outlets are either too lazy or maybe of dubious integrity and either don't fill out the necessary paperwork to deduct local sales taxes or they may even pocket the tax themselves!
One of the cheapest & most reliable sources of tools has for me been toolstop dot com, from Scotland, who are etrade literate enough to quote sale prices, freight etc in my own local currency, although I've noticed that postage prices have increased substantially recently. Amazing service but. A 36v battery lawnmower & SDS drill delivered from Scotland to Tasmania in about 5 days! Quicker (& cheaper) than OZ Post's interstate deliveries!
Google (& a currency converter) is your friend in shopping around for cheap prices in Europe.
A cautionary word is probably due here: most manufacturer's warranties will not cross International borders. If your tool becomes ill, it must be returned (unmodified, not even the power plug) to the retailer of origin, PLUS you'll be up for 2-way freight for even warranty repairs. Even out of warranty, don't expect the local distributor/supplier to carry foreign parts for your tool either. You'll need to source all "unique" parts overseas too!
sigmatango
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Been looking into getting a Kapex here. Seeing as it appears that motor failure in Europe is lower, thought getting a 240V Kapex and a transformer might be a good way to go...
That sort of makes sense, but wouldn't it be wiser to go with a saw that has a better reputation for reliability? There's plenty of saws out there with similar performance but superior reliability & longevity track records.
As a bonus, you get: full warranty service, 100% parts compatibility, repair services for the life of the tool. Plus guaranteed mains compatibility wherever it's used.
If you have to work "around" a particular tool due to serious, legitimate reliability issues, then surely it's a rational step to choose wisely elsewhere! Otherwise you're rewarding the manufacturer for producing a substandard tool, denying yourself the benefits of a superior alternative, plus paying a premium for inadequate performance: lose, lose, lose by my estimation!
As a bonus, you get: full warranty service, 100% parts compatibility, repair services for the life of the tool. Plus guaranteed mains compatibility wherever it's used.
If you have to work "around" a particular tool due to serious, legitimate reliability issues, then surely it's a rational step to choose wisely elsewhere! Otherwise you're rewarding the manufacturer for producing a substandard tool, denying yourself the benefits of a superior alternative, plus paying a premium for inadequate performance: lose, lose, lose by my estimation!
Holmz
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aloysius said:
If the failure rate was 1% and you save 30% and spend 10% for a transformer it makes sense.
If the failure rate is higher and savings is less then the numbers can flip to being a bad decision. You pretty much have to run the numbers, but a different saw is also an option.
Kodi Crescent
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Holmz said:
Can someone please enlighten me on why the US has 110v, and Europe 230v? As an ignorant and formerly jingoistic American, I'd like to understand why America does electricity differently than the rest of the world. (See also Imperial vs. metric).
Is it a transmission over longer distances issue? Safety in the home? American arrogance on doing it 'different' because we're "American"? This is an honest question.
In searching the web it seems that Thomas Edison might be the root cause. A sample link: http://thednetworks.com/2012/06/10/why-does-ukusa-use-110120v-and-others-use-220240v/
Peter
Peter
Michael Kellough
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From the link Peter posted
"Note that currently all new American buildings get in fact 240 volts split in two 120 between neutral and hot wire. Major appliances, such as virtually all drying machines and ovens, are now connected to 240 volts. Mind, Americans who have European equipment shouldn’t connect it to these outlets. Although it may work on some appliances, it will definitely not be the case for all of your equipment. The reason for this is that in the US 240 V is two-phase, whereas in Europe it is single phase."
"Note that currently all new American buildings get in fact 240 volts split in two 120 between neutral and hot wire. Major appliances, such as virtually all drying machines and ovens, are now connected to 240 volts. Mind, Americans who have European equipment shouldn’t connect it to these outlets. Although it may work on some appliances, it will definitely not be the case for all of your equipment. The reason for this is that in the US 240 V is two-phase, whereas in Europe it is single phase."
Cheese
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Michael Kellough said:
I don't believe that the current US 240 V is 2-phase, I always thought it was simply two 120 V 1-phase legs.
Holmz
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Cheese said:
2 legs out of phase... is two phase; and 3 phase actually have 3 single phase legs which are 120 apart from each other in phase.
These days most tools are double insulated, so from the tool's perspective it looks the same as either single or two phase.
nickao
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My lord there is misinformation here!
US two phase?
Please google what system we are on, and how it works before you post.
Please google double insulation and what that is.
Feel free to use any of the 240V UK tools here in the US, I do it everyday.
US two phase?
Please google what system we are on, and how it works before you post.
Please google double insulation and what that is.
Feel free to use any of the 240V UK tools here in the US, I do it everyday.
Cheese
Member
Dovetail65 said:
Well those were also my thoughts...just didn't know how 50 Hz versus 60 Hz would impact the results.
Kodi Crescent said:
It's probably down to history. At one time there were localised but different competitive reticulation systems. AC & DC, but mostly low voltage delivered to domestic customers, delivered through a high voltage network to minimise transmission losses.
Different competitive suppliers demonstrated all sorts of weird reasons why their system was the "best". One of the most bizarre (and cruellest) was to electrocute to death a tethered, tame Indian Elephant to demonstrate the "dangers" of alternating current. AC systems, being superior, eventually won out, but with an inferior end voltage and frequency system.
Being best doesn't always wash. Betamax was always a far superior system to VHS, wasn't it? Because the majority of the world's population is right handed (and eyed), the chance of accidents is statistically increased by driving on the right/passing on the left!
AC means that current in conductors is reversed at a set frequency (60hz. in North American grids). As mentioned elsewhere, universal motors will deal with alternating frequency differences easily. They can (and do) even run on DC. Some specialist manufacturers like Metabo, Perles etc. make ultra-safe specialist AC/DC mains tools for critically fire sensitive applications like oil rigs, gas plants, powdered aluminium or magnesium plants etc. where the merest hint of a spark could spell disaster.
Induction motors traditionally tolerate frequency variations less happily, with major variations of output power and other performance irregularities the norm at about the same percentage as the actual value of variance.
As for the "phase" differences in mains electricity, there's none. Not being familiar with north american power reticulation networks, I can only draw parallels with those with which I am. Locally power is generated from nuclear, fossil fuelled and renewable resources at a variety of voltages and currents. Generally more "robust" generation facilities are at 220,000v in a 3 phased array, whereas say solar or wind powered generation may be as low as 12v dc. High voltage generated sources are distributed at the highest possible voltage to minimise transmission losses (some are unavoidable). Usually 22,000v, although 11,000 or less are also used in distributors to aggregations of smaller domestic customers, before final distribution at 415v in three phases.
Due to the sine wave of power current alternation cycles, three phase power is much more desirable for industrial users, as 3 "power strokes" at 120 degree intervals radically smoothes power delivery, allowing more "work" to be performed from a given power input. Most domestic customers, however, are only connected to 2 of the 3 possible phased wires on the power poles, with adjacent households connected to a different pairing in a crude attempt to "balance" the overall load across all phases. 3 phases together, or 3 with an additional connected neutral, translates to 415v. Connection across any 2 of the 3 phases yields 240v. The same principles apply in the USA (physics in common right across the known universe).
Why does north 'merica persist with a 3rd world standard reticulation network? Good question! Think of all the current investment in appliances & infrastructure that exists already. Would voters appreciate the change? Would you be willing to basically throw away each and every electrical appliance in your household, from the fridge to the stereo, to the computer, or the power tools, to the lights and myriad other extant examples? The cost would be in the trillions! Plus I suspect that given the endemic fear and paranoia & conspiratorial expectations expressly symptomatic of the "central" nation of the continent, the risk of having hundreds of millions of rioting, looting & raping homicidal rednecks armed to the teeth with hundreds of millions of hand-cannons & assault rifles is just too much for any government to bear.
Would (could) it happen in the civilised world? In the 50's the Swedish government held a referenda asking whether the citizenry would be happy driving on the "wrong" side of the road. No thanks was the resounding response of about 87%, overwhelmingly preferring the status quo. Yet the Government switched sides anyway, following many other Euro nations. So the Swedes suddenly found themselves crossing the road one fine sunny morning and staying there forever thereafter. All that was required was a new car, which kept Saab, Volvo, Scania et. al. busy & viable for decades to come! No Swedes were killed in the process, except for the road trauma, carnage and psychological damage associated with being obliged to suddenly & irrevocably change the driving habits acquired over a lifetime.
The advantages of a lower voltage are: heavier wiring is required to carry twice the current needed for equivalent work performed. This is great for copper producers. Plus....... er, that's about it! Maybe it's (marginally) safer. Maybe. The UK halves the voltage used on building sited for this stated reason, but basically it's BS!
It ain't the voltage wot kills, it's the current. If you halve available voltage, then current must double to perform equivalent work, which is at least one of the reasons why north 'merican Kapexes are such rubbish! The cheap lightweight wiring in the armatures, when coupled with what I assume is inadequate or at least poorly designed cooling causes excessive heat induction and premature demise.
The disadvantages? Well ask an unfortunate Kapex owner! The risk of fire is also proportionally increased with inadequately protected household circuitry asked to service ever more power-hungry domestic appliances, like semi-industrial ovens, air conditioners and woodworking machinery for which it was never intended.
Metabo, masters of angle grinder design, wanted more current through a slimmer motor design, in one of the hardest working power tools out there. How to squeeze more current through a tighter space? Square sectional, heavier gauge copper windings, smaller cages containing the field coils, and baked epoxy armour. Increased fan capacity, careful airway analysis and aerodynamic design allowing high velocity (400 km/hr!) cooling. In many voltages: 240/230/220, 120/110, 72v DC. If a small/medium enterprise like Metabo can, then why can't an equivalent sized enterprise like Festo? Maybe because Metabo design & make almost all their own motors, whereas Festo, at least for the Kapex, don't. A case in point for not always accepting the "cheapest" quote.
I am (or rather was) an electrician. Not an electrical engineer. I'm also (occasionally) prone to hyperbole. Please feel free to dispute, modify or otherwise correct any mistakes I may have made. I'm just attempting to explain in layman's terms why north america has, & persists with, an inadequate power grid system. If you think I'm spouting utter unmitigated crap, then please tell me!
Cheese
Member
aloysius said:
Current might kill, but you won't have current without voltage.aloysius said:
Its like saying it's not propellant that kills, it's the bullet.
12V battery won't hurt you regardless of its amperage.
Lots of things are at play in electrical safety: voltage, current, body resistance, even frequency.
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