Even more homemade parallel guides - Thanks to mikeneron and terrystouf

[Claimdude]

I have pondered owning a set of parallel guides every since they were introduced. A few things bothered me about the Festool set. They are metric, they hang off the end of the material and the expense. Some of the short comings have been addressed by user modifications but nothing that really suited my fancy. The last 6 months I have been being thinking about building a set of guides after seeing posts by terrystouf and mikeneron. There was another post where the member used Rockler guide rails but I forget his name (thanks to him as well). The one that really got me off dead center was Mikeneron. He posted good pics AND an parts list!!! I finally ordered the parts a month or so ago and assembled the guides. I liked everything except the T bracket set up for attaching the Incra rails to the Festool rails. The connection was too sloppy and left toomuch room for error for me. I wanted to be able to slide the parallel guides on the rails, tighten them down and go to work. That got me focused on Terrystouf's post with good photos of the wood connectors be made to attach his guides. Well, I made me a pair of wood brackets and am very happy with the result. Once attached to the saw rail the guides are square to the rail and rigid. I used a Festool guide rail connector cut in half for the wood bracket attachment to the saw guide. I think I have about $120 in the set up. In keeping with the belief that "no photos, never happened" see pics below.

Jack

 

[John Stevens]

Very nice!  Thanks for sharing here.  Could you write a little about the cursors and post a close-up?  Thanks.

Regards,

John

 

[mikeneron]

Nice job!

I liked everything except the T bracket set up for attaching the Incra rails to the Festool rails. The connection was too sloppy and left toomuch room for error for me. I wanted to be able to slide the parallel guides on the rails, tighten them down and go to work.

I found the same thing.  If the Incra tracks aren't always square to the rail it can lead to measurements being out a tiny bit.  Let me know how your solution works for you as I was thinking about this today and might just have to borrow your idea

I also emailed Incra asking if their lexan tapes came as just one piece, but they don't.  I think I will put some tape on them to keep them together.  I don't think they have moved, but would have been nice to just have one long tape instead of 16" sections.

 

[rmwarren]

I have been watching these parallel guide threads with interest, as well as other threads where guys are attaching stuff to the FS rails, and started noodling around on a "perfect" multi -purpose attachment for the rails.

In addition to the parallel guides there are threads for home-made 32mm indexers and one where a guy mounted a precision square to the rail to simplify squaring cross-cuts. I wanted one component that could be used for all these situations, here is what I came up with.

[attachthumb=#]

[attachthumb=#]

The dado fits over either one of the raised channels on the rail, and the widget serves several uses:

1.  Attach it to the outer groove with a screw/tee nut and then an Incra track fits into the recess for the parallel guide use

2.  It is sized for 1/4" below the portions that extends from the rail and there are 2 through-holes to attach a square for cross cutting, or most anything else you might want.

3.  The 2 holes in the end are tapped, by reversing it & adding another plate with 2 rods it can attach to a router and either slide along the rail or for cutting dadoes or using a pin and an index strip (that sits in the t-slot) it can index to 32mm for cutting holes fo shelf pins, etc.

This is the design for the router attachment:

[attachthumb=#]

The index strip would have holes on 32mm centers,  slip into the t-slot and be held by a couple set screws:

[attachthumb=#]

I think I will make them in increments of 32mm in length then I can add more than one into the t-slot to extend the length. I am planning to make a this setup as soon as I have time, I have a small milling machine so I can make everything from aluminum.

RMW

 

[Claimdude]

Very nice!  Thanks for sharing here.  Could you write a little about the cursors and post a close-up?  Thanks.

Regards,

John

John,

I used hairline indicators from Rockler. Part # 40331. They come in packs of 2. They are self adhesive (I used Titebond instant glue in addition as the tape they use didn't adhere very well to the wood blocks). I tried attaching them with screws but they are very brittle. See additional pics below. Also, once the rails are attached and knobs/screws tightened they are very rigid. The groove the incra rails fit in is 90 degrees to the saw rail so they are always square and accurate.

Jack

 

[woodwreck]

Claimdude, I might be the forgotten dude who built on Mikeneron's great idea, and was pretty happy with the 3 1/2" T bracket but your refreshing idea of the Festool connector enlightened me further. And, pics or not it did get done  ;D.  I used two 8020 button head screws and the t-handle drive shown for quick connect/removal.

But, I agree, it still required a quick check for square precision, not to our mutual preference. So now, I ask exactly how did you secure the connecting bar? - in the shadow of your pic, it appears you used a #10 washer to space the bar loose enough for insertion, and then tighten the two set screws.

Before going to the work of milling the wood bracket,  I'll ry connecting the track connector to the T brackets first. They are super solid aside for the fastener play.

OTHER ITEMS:
Incra v. Rockler extrusion is a matter of personal preference, the two extrusions are similar. I prefer Rockler.

As to the TAPES mentioned. Rockler provides 36" tapes left to right(# 32893) or right to left (31193) for $10 each. For those using the 16" Incra tapes, I placed 2" wide heavy duty clear 3M package tape over those on my Incra fence and then trimmed the extra width with a knife blade, holding them in place and providing scrape protection.

Thanks for your idea.

 

[mikeneron]

The thread that pushed me over the edge for building my own was that of MavDog's: http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/homemade-parallel-guides

I agree that using the T-connectors hasn't worked all too well...have to keep making sure the connection is square.  I have gone with just making something out of plywood to make the connection...sure is a solid connection now.  Since I am still using the thumb screws, I had to tweak it a bit so the saw didn't hit them and the max depth I can cut is 3/4" so I may still lean towards your solution in the end.

Jack, what did you use to connect the guide rail connector to your wood block?  They look like there is tons more clearance for the saw to pass over.  Maybe you could provide a link for that specific bolt?

 

[woodwreck]

Mikeneron and Claimdude, let me offer a comment to better word my inadequate prior note.

To my observation the T bracket works very well in part - e.g. the part clamped on the side extrusion (Rockler or...) works perfectly and is great given its clearance referred to.

The problem to my observation is that they come with a 1/4" dia hole intended for wood screws. The smaller bolts in use to the Track then slosh around out of 90 degrees. The straight bar if threaded, assures straight alingment.

Tonight I will drill holes in the T bracket and the connect bar to exactly fit the socket/pan head screws dia., and tap threads in the connect bar to match. That was my intended question earlier. As long as the home made block/T strap is secure to the extrusion it should work.

Again thanks Claimdude for the direction and Mike I will post bolt specs and let you know what comes of my effort, for your review.

 

[Claimdude]

Claimdude, I might be the forgotten dude who built on Mikeneron's great idea, and was pretty happy with the 3 1/2" T bracket but your refreshing idea of the Festool connector enlightened me further. And, pics or not it did get done  ;D.  I used two 8020 button head screws and the t-handle drive shown for quick connect/removal.

But, I agree, it still required a quick check for square precision, not to our mutual preference. So now, I ask exactly how did you secure the connecting bar? - in the shadow of your pic, it appears you used a #10 washer to space the bar loose enough for insertion, and then tighten the two set screws.

Before going to the work of milling the wood bracket,  I'll ry connecting the track connector to the T brackets first. They are super solid aside for the fastener play.

OTHER ITEMS:
Incra v. Rockler extrusion is a matter of personal preference, the two extrusions are similar. I prefer Rockler.

As to the TAPES mentioned. Rockler provides 36" tapes left to right(# 32893) or right to left (31193) for $10 each. For those using the 16" Incra tapes, I placed 2" wide heavy duty clear 3M package tape over those on my Incra fence and then trimmed the extra width with a knife blade, holding them in place and providing scrape protection.

Thanks for your idea.

Woodwreck,

After cutting the dado (I used my router table) in the wood bracket to slide snuggly over the top of the FR (Festool rail) connector slot I then just drilled the holes centered (front to back) on the dado using my drill press. Once I had the set up drilling the second bracket was quick. I marked the location of the holes lengthwise of the dado by using the rail connector to mark the hole location in the bracket. The bracket edge extends 3/16" past the edge of the rail connector mount going toward the saw. I went ahead and trimmed off the 3/16 overhang because it was so thin it broke off easily. If you extend the bracket edge much closer to the saw travel it will get in the way of the saw.

The dado for the IR (Incra rails) fits the IRs very snug AND the dado is exactly 90 degrees to the dado that sits on the FR. This eliminates the need to check the IR rail for square to the FR when installing. Also, reference your question about the spacer, there is a bit of play when the bracket/connector is slid onto the FR but again holding the bracket tight against the FR before tightening takes care of it. I just push the wood bracket tight against the FR and tighten the cap screws and voila.... squaring is done. The other variable is the length calibration. The IR ends are installed exactly flush with the wall of the dado that rides against the FR I can remove the brackets and put shorter or longer rails on them without having to recalibrate when I put them back on this set of IRs.

One other thing to mention. My brackets are 7/8" thick. The dado for the FR is deep enough to allow the bracket and IR to lay flat on the cutting surface AND the FR lays flat. With the T brackets intalled the IRs pulled the cutting edge of the FR about 3/16" off the cutting surface. Not a major problem but the way I have it now I can put the FR/IR rail combo down on a piece of sheetgoods and make the cut without the claims because the no slip strips of the FR are fully engaged. The dado for the IR rail is deeper than the FR dado and allows the rail to be excactly flush with the bottom of the bracket and all rests flat on the cutting surface.

Jack

 

[woodwreck]

Well, I am pleased to report success in my approach to the 4" flat iron flange, in similar concept to what you have pioneered, Jack.

After cutting the dado ...  in the wood bracket to slide snuggly over the top of the FR (Festool rail) connector slot....
I LEFT THE T BRACKET FLAT ON THE ALU7MINUM ROCKLER EXTRUSION AND OVER THE FESTOOL TRACK GUIDE AS THEY ARE THE SAME THICKNESS.

The bracket edge extends 3/16" past the edge of the rail connector mount going toward the saw. I went ahead and trimmed off the 3/16 overhang because it was so thin it broke off easily. If you extend the bracket edge much closer to the saw travel it will get in the way of the saw.
I DID NOT DO ANY OF THIS AS IT WAS NOT AN ISSUE WITH AMPLE SPACE TOP THE SAW EDGE.

The dado for the IR (Incra rails) fits the IRs very snug AND the dado is exactly 90 degrees to the dado that sits on the FR. This eliminates the need to check the IR rail for square to the FR when installing.
ONCE SET WITH THE BUTTON SCREWS, THE ASSEMBLY REMAINS AT A ROCK SOLID 90 DEGREES. NOTE CONSTRUCTION NOTES BELOW.

Also, reference your question about the spacer, ... 
I AGREE; I NOW SEE THE SPACE IS INTENDED FOR THE CONNECTOR TO BE DRAWN UP AGAINST THE EXTRUSION.

The other variable is the length calibration. ...
AGREED, SAME THING

One other thing to mention. My brackets are 7/8" thick.
THE T BRACKET AND SCREW PROTRUDE 5/32" ...

With the T brackets intalled the IRs pulled the cutting edge of the FR about 3/16" off the cutting surface. Not a major problem but the way I have it now I can put the FR/IR rail combo down on a piece of sheetgoods and make the cut without the claims because the no slip strips of the FR are fully engaged. The dado for the IR rail is deeper than the FR dado and allows the rail to be excactly flush with the bottom of the bracket and all rests flat on the cutting surface.
BECAUSE OF DIFFERENCES IN THE ROCKLER EXTRUSION'S DIMENSIONS, NONE OF THIS APPLES. IT LIES FLAT ON TOP OF THE MATERIAL AND GOES OVER THE SIDE AS PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED.

CONSTRUCTION NOTES.
THE T BRACKET AS SHOWN IN THE PRIOR PIC POSTED  IS MOUNTED ON THE ROCKLER EXTRUSION, WITH TWO BUTTON SCREWS, NO FURTHER MODIFICATION.
HJOLES IN THE CONNECTOR BAR MUST BE DRILLED EITHER SIMULTANEOUSLY OR AS I DID, AS A PATTERN TO PROVIDE PRECISE ALIGNMENT. PLAN DRILLING SEQUENCE CAREFULLY. THE TWO HOLES IN EACH BRACKT ARE DRILLED WITH A #7 DRILL AND THEN TAPPED AS 1/4-20.

HOLES IN THE T BRACKET MUST BE DRILLED AS 15/64", NOT 1/4" WHCH WOULD BE PROPER FOR TYPICAL  BOLT AND NUT ASSEMBLY. USING 1/4" DRILL ALLOWS 1/64" GAP WHICH ALLOWS 1 - 2 DEGREE SWING OFF 90DEGREES. WITH 15/64, THERE IS NO MOVEMENT.

THE FOUR BUTTON HEAD SCREWS ARE 1/4-20 X 3/8". THE PIC ABOVE SHOWS IT ALL EXCEPT THAT THEY ARE NOW MOUNTED IN THE CONNECTOR BARS INSTEAD OF INDIVIDUALLY IN THE TRACK GUIDE SLOTS.

IN THE MORNING WITH BETTER LIGHTING, I WILL TRY TO GET SOME CLOSEUP PICS BUT THEY WILL BE OF LITTLE DIFFERENCE FROM THE SINGLE PRINT I ALREADY POSTED. BUT THE KEY DIFFERENCE IS YOUR IDENTIFYING THE CONNECTOR AS THE DEVICE TO USE.

 

[John Stevens]

I used hairline indicators from Rockler. Part # 40331. They come in packs of 2. They are self adhesive (I used Titebond instant glue in addition as the tape they use didn't adhere very well to the wood blocks). I tried attaching them with screws but they are very brittle. See additional pics below.

Much obliged, Jack!

Regards,

John

 

[woodwreck]

If I may chime in, a touch of spray poly, clear lacquer,  or touch of sanding sealer on the bare wood to seal it and they will usually stick just fine. They won't stick on bare wood as you discovered.

 

[Claimdude]

If I may chime in, a touch of spray poly, clear lacquer,  or touch of sanding sealer on the bare wood to seal it and they will usually stick just fine. They won't stick on bare wood as you discovered.

Woodwreck,

I did put some clear finish on the blocks and let them dry sufficiently. After sticking the indicator on it was just too easy to move it side to side (ever so slightly) so I added the super glue. Didn't want an indicator to get bumped and be out of allignment without me knowing it.

Thanks
Jack

 

[woodwreck]

Good point; Thank you for the fill-in - sorry it didn't work for you; it was just a thought  [2cents]

 

[woodwreck]

Well, we have a problem​

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but after testing the work described yesterday, I feel obliged to share the information. Yesterday I proclaimed the T strap is indeed a rigid 90 degrees to the hand, aligns without checking, and so forth. But there is an unforeseen, unacceptable  problem with the flat metal strap and the combination of the aluminum T-channel in use.

In sliding the assembled Saw Guide across a sheet of plywood there is enough drag across the 4' length to cause the Saw Guide to leverage the t-connection of whatever type. This applied torque distorts/bends the aluminum t slot channel enough for the cut to be thrown off by as much as a 1/4" - 3/8", over a 4' sheet of plywood.

One look at the Festool product reminds us of why they have a 3" wide torsion bar side guide with a wide extruded T-clamp mechanism the difference in construction, and of course the cost.

Claimdude's great design of a wider 3/4" block substantially improves the connection over the flat T strap, but does not strengthen the extrusion itself (Incra or Rockler). I assume Claimdude is watching here and I would like to request  a report of his test or use of the method he built.

 

[Claimdude]

Well, we have a problem​

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but after testing the work described yesterday, I feel obliged to share the information. Yesterday I proclaimed the T strap is indeed a rigid 90 degrees to the hand, aligns without checking, and so forth. But there is an unforeseen, unacceptable  problem with the flat metal strap and the combination of the aluminum T-channel in use.

In sliding the assembled Saw Guide across a sheet of plywood there is enough drag across the 4' length to cause the Saw Guide to leverage the t-connection of whatever type. This applied torque distorts/bends the aluminum t slot channel enough for the cut to be thrown off by as much as a 1/4" - 3/8", over a 4' sheet of plywood.

One look at the Festool product reminds us of why they have a 3" wide torsion bar side guide with a wide extruded T-clamp mechanism the difference in construction, and of course the cost.

Claimdude's great design of a wider 3/4" block substantially improves the connection over the flat T strap, but does not strengthen the extrusion itself (Incra or Rockler). I assume Claimdude is watching here and I would like to request  a report of his test or use of the method he built.

Woodwreck,

I attached both guides to a 55 rail, one at each end, and tested per your comments above. I moved the guide back and forth across the ply and turned the guide 180 degrees around on the ply so the assembly received degrees of lateral force. This was done holding onto the end of just one parallel guide (the end fartherest from the FR). The non slip strips were fully engaged on the ply. There was zero movement of either parallel guide in relation to the FR. I removed the parallel guides and used a straight edge to check the aluminum attachment points on the FR and they are straight and true with zero deformity. There are 2 factors, I think, that add to this rigidity and that is the fact that the wood bracket provides support along the back side of the FR (about 6 inches or so) both vertical (the height of the FR) and lengthwise. The 2nd point is I used half a FR connector as my connection point and this spreads the stress out over a larger area of the FR connection than T bolts will. I liken it to the unibody construction of automobiles, where steel may be used to reinforce aluminum at critical pressure points.

I had to order new tapes to install on my IRs in order to recalibrate the length of cut. Those came today so I will b recalibrating them sometime this week. Since the attachment is very solid as are my stop blocks I anticipate that my cuts after I recalibrate should be very accurate.  I really, liked the idea of using clear packing tape (mentioned earlier in this thread) to hold the sections of index tape together and will use that method once calibration is complete.

Jack

 

[woodwreck]

Thank you for the prompt and thorough evaluation - I did exactly the same thing in testing it.

To clarify however, my reference to distortion did not mean to imply the extrusion was bent or permanently so, but only distorted while moving or held in place by the guide rail's non slip strip, any clamping, or weight of the saw, etc. I made two cuts across a sheet of 1/2" Baltic Birch and marked them before sliding the assembly just as you did.

Incidentally, a post in another forum  segment asked about distorted cut along the rail and numerous respondents told the OP that he was apparently pressing too much lateral pressure, distorting the guide rail.

And, my comments about the larger body etc., are exactly what you answered so thoroughly with regard to its triangulation and support; particularly in using the ~6" or so of a full half-bar.

Clearly my idea to-date is out the window and I will try to duplicate your workmanship in the dadoing and so forth to create a block fixture as you did.

 

[andy5405]

I have been watching these parallel guide threads with interest, as well as other threads where guys are attaching stuff to the FS rails, and started noodling around on a "perfect" multi -purpose attachment for the rails.

In addition to the parallel guides there are threads for home-made 32mm indexers and one where a guy mounted a precision square to the rail to simplify squaring cross-cuts. I wanted one component that could be used for all these situations, here is what I came up with.

[attachthumb=#]

[attachthumb=#]

The dado fits over either one of the raised channels on the rail, and the widget serves several uses:

1.  Attach it to the outer groove with a screw/tee nut and then an Incra track fits into the recess for the parallel guide use

2.  It is sized for 1/4" below the portions that extends from the rail and there are 2 through-holes to attach a square for cross cutting, or most anything else you might want.

3.  The 2 holes in the end are tapped, by reversing it & adding another plate with 2 rods it can attach to a router and either slide along the rail or for cutting dadoes or using a pin and an index strip (that sits in the t-slot) it can index to 32mm for cutting holes fo shelf pins, etc.

This is the design for the router attachment:

[attachthumb=#]

The index strip would have holes on 32mm centers,  slip into the t-slot and be held by a couple set screws:

[attachthumb=#]

I think I will make them in increments of 32mm in length then I can add more than one into the t-slot to extend the length. I am planning to make a this setup as soon as I have time, I have a small milling machine so I can make everything from aluminum.

RMW

Had you considered combining this functionality with the MFT dog guide rail attachments you are working on. It might make it bulkier and slightly increase the minimum width of cut if they were to be used to attach to a homemade parallel guide but it would be a very versatile part and appeal to a wider user base if your universal attachment also enabled perfect cross cutting and rip cutting.

 

[Claimdude]

Thank you for the prompt and thorough evaluation - I did exactly the same thing in testing it.

To clarify however, my reference to distortion did not mean to imply the extrusion was bent or permanently so, but only distorted while moving or held in place by the guide rail's non slip strip, any clamping, or weight of the saw, etc. I made two cuts across a sheet of 1/2" Baltic Birch and marked them before sliding the assembly just as you did.

Incidentally, a post in another forum  segment asked about distorted cut along the rail and numerous respondents told the OP that he was apparently pressing too much lateral pressure, distorting the guide rail.

And, my comments about the larger body etc., are exactly what you answered so thoroughly with regard to its triangulation and support; particularly in using the ~6" or so of a full half-bar.

Clearly my idea to-date is out the window and I will try to duplicate your workmanship in the dadoing and so forth to create a block fixture as you did.

Another update. In my original set up with the T brackets  I had registered the IRs flush against the back edge of the FRs. While assemblying the new set up with wood brackets I thought my length calibration was thrown off by 2 inches with the new brackets. At the time I thought it odd since the IRs are registered against the FRs with the new brackets. Anyway, I double checked my calibration tonight and found that only one of my IRs was off by about 1/128 inch. I now have them calibrated and just need to add the packing tape so the tapes won't move. I will be on vaction next week so will have some time to make a test cut or two.

Jack

 

[woodwreck]

I now have them calibrated and just need to add the packing tape so the tapes won't move.

(Claimdude)

Well, even though the T bracket idea turned to mush, I'm glad my suggestion of high tech 3M products was so successful  [big grin]