Every brand is rolling out installation drivers - did a Festool patent expire?

bwehman

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Seems like Milwaukee, Dewalt and others are coming out with installation drivers with interchangeable adapters like Festool drills. Is it just coincidental timing or did some patent lapse?
 
There was no patent on any of those things from Festool. Festool certainly isn't the first manufacturer to make drills with interchangeable chucks. It was just that other brands didn't care and suddenly realised there is a demand for it.

It's just like with electric cars. The major car manufacturers didn't give a hoot about them until they saw the success of Tesla and now everybody's making them.
 
The Bosch GSR # FC series has been out for years, so I don't think it's patent related.
 
I think this is something more simple.

The improvements of battery tech made 12V tool ranges practical for light duties and sufficiently differentiated from 18V/40V.
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More people are switching/starting on 12V again.
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Once the "generic" tool types were introduced, there came the time for the corner cases/specific tools.
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One of those is an installation driver.

As for Centrotec, the patents expired like a decade ago. Some even make (semi-)compatible drill drivers like the Metabo one.
 
There may be multiple brands offering an installation driver, but they are not on the same level.

I bought the Bosch set a couple years ago and at first I like it but then I came to realize their method of attaching the different drive heads to the motor is a royal PITA, mostly with the drill chuck. This is because the collar you rotate to fasten the head on the tool is so close to the chuck that when you want to change bits you have to be careful not to decouple the head from the tool and risk dropping it. The head might not get damaged in the drop but what about wherever it lands or say it falls where you can't easily retrieve it from.

So the bayonet style connector that Festool and Milwaukee use I think is better than the twist-lock connection used by Bosch. I don't know what style connection is used by the other brands but if you're looking this would be something you might want to evaluate for and how it might affect your work.

I've since replaced the Bosch with the Milwaukee and I like it much better. The only shortcoming so far for the Milwaukee is the lack of a Fwd/Rev switch in the widely accepted location above the trigger. Having a soft switch/button that requires a second hand to operate could be a huge disadvantage depending on what you are working on. If you need to repeatedly toggle from forward to reverse the Milwaukee is not your friend.

Bottom line, spend the extra dollars and get the CXS.
 
I agree, it's not a new thing...'just an opportunity to "get light" with the improvements in battery technology. Milwaukee as had smaller devices for sometime now, but the latest generation is indeed more like CSX. Bosch has had a product for years as has already been noted.

I think the renewed interest by the tool manufacturers is coming from market demand. Folks who "do the work" are coming to realize that a big, heavy 18/20v drill/driver in constant use for jobs that don't require that level of power is physically taxing. They also don't fit into the tight spaces that often come with "installation" type work.

About a year ago, a technician was here to fix the garage door and install a new opener after we moved in. He there was a need to install some pieces of plywood to support the new arrangement and I handed him one of my CSXs and square drive screws to do the deed up on his ladder. His response was something akin to, "Holy {excrement}...this thing is light, comfortable and has a lot of power!" I suspect he's now carrying the similar Milwaukee on his truck now since that's his company's "flavor" of tool.
 
Jim_in_PA said:
[...] I handed him one of my CSXs and square drive screws to do the deed up on his ladder. His response was something akin to, "Holy {excrement}...this thing is light, comfortable and has a lot of power!" I suspect he's now carrying the similar Milwaukee on his truck now since that's his company's "flavor" of tool.

Even though the CXS is one of the bigger, heavier and weaker 12V drivers.

This is a Bosch GSR 12v-35 FC without any of the attachments, inside a cabinet that is ~164mm wide internally;
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With the Festool CXS -dimensions not published by Festool- this wouldn't fly. Only with the 90 degree attachment.

Cut from this video;

Is this picture; (9:41 in the video)
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Coen said:
With the Festool CXS -dimensions not published by Festool- this wouldn't fly. Only with the 90 degree attachment.

Presumably that's one of the reasons the 90 degree attachment exists...  [wink]

I definitely prefer the C handle style of the CXS over the TXS.

Also, kudos for using "CXS" instead of the normal "CSX" that I see everywhere.  [big grin]

CXS/TXS are drivers made by Festool.

CSX is a railroad company.

TSX is an automobile model made by Honda/Acura.
 
squall_line said:
Coen said:
With the Festool CXS -dimensions not published by Festool- this wouldn't fly. Only with the 90 degree attachment.

Presumably that's one of the reasons the 90 degree attachment exists...  [wink]

Yeah well, step 1 is making the need for special attachments smaller  [tongue]

There are also cases where you can't fit the length of the machine in the other direction either.
 
I had one of the Bosch drivers, back when it was sold as 10.8v. The original was 1/4" hex only and single-speed. (400rpm IIRC)
I worked in the assembly area back then and used it for hardware attachment. It was fine for that, but useless as a drill. It required drill bits with hex shanks, which weren't nearly as common back then, plus being too slow.
They introduced a new model with a drill chuck and 2 speed transmission in something like fall of '08 or early winter of '09? It still had the same problem that still exists to this day. The battery is somewhat triangular and is installed backward (IMHO). If you reverse the tool in your hand, it feels much better. They also had a 90 degree version, which I bought too.
Then I discovered the CXS. It can do all of the above, realistically at a lower price, since it's all in one. I sold all of the Bosch stuff to co-workers.
 
I tried the Milwaukee and found it to be front-heavy and didn't like the forward/reverse button on top. It is also missing retention on the offset head. I had the Bosch which I liked but it was a one-off so I sold it when I moved most of my tools to the DeWalt line. I have the DeWalt multi drive and it's fine but I am looking forward to the day that Festool revises the TXS. I wonder what they will do about the battery situation...
 
Milwaukee now has a D/D that C-handled like the Festool CXS...I've been seeing it more and more in videos. M12 based I believe.
 
Having the battery in the grip is what allows for it's low total height. If you use the Bosch with the 4 or 6 Ah battery the center of gravity becomes even better en it will last insanely long.

Having it share batteries with wall scanner, lasers, lights.. I like it. If I were to switch to the CXS I can't replace the other stuff for something that uses the CXS battery. Soo... that's not gonna happen.
 
That's the problem with the CXS and TXS batteries, they are orphans. Nothing else works with them.
All of my cordless tools are Makita, except for the CXS. It is worth the small added issue of having another charger. All of my Festool tools are corded, at least so far.
 
My CXS lives n my shop and is my favorite.  That being said, I am heavily invested in Milwaukee 12 and 18v tools and the m12 installers set lives in my van and is my most used tool.  It still lives in the furnished bag as it resides on the step in my Transit and I can grab and go.  I keep drills, bits, counter sinks, extensions and step drills in the bag so most of my needs are immediate.  That step in the van also stores my metric and imperial Wera socket sets and three minis, Milwaukee m12 rotary tool in one, Milwaukee nut drivers in one and the third my m12 straight and angles die grinders  carbide dbl cut bits.
 
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