Extreme Fire Restoration - Workshop Guys Must Read!
- Thread starter Scott B.
- Start date
Scott B. said:
Thanks for the reminder, I just unplugged my charger in my garage that's been idle all winter.
Lithium ions are so sensitive to overvoltage, I've been thinking of putting the outlet on a Lutron Maestro occupancy sensor. I have one in my bathroom for the fan, and it's helped a lot with curbing mold. Most things charge in < 1 hr nowadays, ideally I'd throw it on the charger, leave, and in an hour, the charger will turn itself off.
Problem is that the sensors are only built to 6A max, I'm sure putting a 15A capable socket on it is a code violation.
sae said:
Are you saying that overcharging Lithium ion batteries is a fire hazard? I am a great one for changing batteries and as soon as the dead one has a chance to cool down, putting on the charger while i continue working. SOP indicates that a day or so later, i will remember the battery is still on the charger.
Lately, i am into my more sporadic mode for working in the shop (tax stuff and schedule proposals for upcoming season)so when a battery goes dead, i wait a few weeks until I think the next battery is about to die and then charge. Or i wait til both batteries are dead and then charge one while i do something else with another toy. I sort of adapt to how I am working in shop and how my "day" biz attention needs.
Tinker
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So, this is still going on. Down to a few final critical categories in the scope of work. Currently, basement floor refinish. If you recall, which I am sure you do, the fire started in the basement.
Today we acid etched the concrete and supplemented with some RAS grinding. Here is a shot grinding melted plastic off the floor at the location of the fire.
Stinky. But hey, when you are doing an acid bath, anything goes.
[attachimg=1]
Today we acid etched the concrete and supplemented with some RAS grinding. Here is a shot grinding melted plastic off the floor at the location of the fire.
Stinky. But hey, when you are doing an acid bath, anything goes.
[attachimg=1]
Attachments
[member=19511]Scott B[/member] Are you using Muriatic acid for the etching?
How much did you cut it if that's what you were using?
The last few years I was doing masonry, there were a few masonry cleaners that were in use and more still coming out that were far safer than the muriatic acid that had been used for years. They were far less toxic to eyes and lungs and with just a little more time involvement were just as good for cleaning masonry.
another pro for using those newer products (If I got involved, the product of choice was Brick Clense, or maybe it was Brick Klenz, or something like that) was that one did not have to worry (so much) about they pants falling off hours later and looking down to see there was nothing left of the garment.
Another story: Somebody had given me a pair of Levi's as he had told me they were too small for him. Not too many guys were smaller than I, so I guess he thought of me right away. The pants were like brand new and since they were "the right price". I accepted. That evening I was going to be visiting my good friend with whom we always listen to (pre TV days) the Thursday nite fights. his new bride was always a part of the audience, but she was not so interested in the fights as she was in just good conversation. We enjoyed her company for the great cookies and other goodies she always supplied us with. (At least that was my explanation. I suppose my buddy had other reasons for keeping her around :
) Anyhow, since most of my dungarees were getting somewhat worn I decided to wear my new acquisition. they were so new the color was not even faded.
At some point during the (after dinner) fights, I had to get up to go pee. As I walked across the room, the wife started laughing. My buddy was engrossed in the fight talk, so he was not aware of what his wife was laughing at. For him, the fights were quite serious, as he was a pretty good boxer him self. He and I had had this thing going a couple of years earlier where we had sort of settled our territories. I had, upon a couple of occasions, whipped him pretty good at wrestling. He was, I knew, pretty good with his fists. I knew that several fight managers in the area had been after him for years, even while in high school, to go into boxing. He was really good. The couple of times I had beaten him at wrestling, he would tell me that someday, he would get me with the gloves on. well, that is another story not going into here, but after that matchup, we never fought again, not at either sport. We decide that if we were going to be friends, there was not much to gain fighting about it.
As his bride was laughing, finally my pal looked my way and went into convulsions. It seems the seat of my pants were non existent. Upon further scrutiny, it was noticed that there were holes starting to show in other areas of the pants as well. I found out later that the guy who had given me the pants had spattered acid on them, but supposedly had washed them immediately. I don't even remember who it was, so he must not have been one of my best friends. Was I set up? I never really knew. All i remember was the results. By the time I got home that nite, my pants were somewhat non existent. It took a long time for me to outpace the razzing i got with each visit to listen to the Thursday nite fights. [wink]
Just one of the little side benefits to using muriatic acid. The slightest spatter can be quite embarrassing. But the real health hazards are no where near as funny.
Tinker
How much did you cut it if that's what you were using?
The last few years I was doing masonry, there were a few masonry cleaners that were in use and more still coming out that were far safer than the muriatic acid that had been used for years. They were far less toxic to eyes and lungs and with just a little more time involvement were just as good for cleaning masonry.
another pro for using those newer products (If I got involved, the product of choice was Brick Clense, or maybe it was Brick Klenz, or something like that) was that one did not have to worry (so much) about they pants falling off hours later and looking down to see there was nothing left of the garment.
Another story: Somebody had given me a pair of Levi's as he had told me they were too small for him. Not too many guys were smaller than I, so I guess he thought of me right away. The pants were like brand new and since they were "the right price". I accepted. That evening I was going to be visiting my good friend with whom we always listen to (pre TV days) the Thursday nite fights. his new bride was always a part of the audience, but she was not so interested in the fights as she was in just good conversation. We enjoyed her company for the great cookies and other goodies she always supplied us with. (At least that was my explanation. I suppose my buddy had other reasons for keeping her around :
) Anyhow, since most of my dungarees were getting somewhat worn I decided to wear my new acquisition. they were so new the color was not even faded. At some point during the (after dinner) fights, I had to get up to go pee. As I walked across the room, the wife started laughing. My buddy was engrossed in the fight talk, so he was not aware of what his wife was laughing at. For him, the fights were quite serious, as he was a pretty good boxer him self. He and I had had this thing going a couple of years earlier where we had sort of settled our territories. I had, upon a couple of occasions, whipped him pretty good at wrestling. He was, I knew, pretty good with his fists. I knew that several fight managers in the area had been after him for years, even while in high school, to go into boxing. He was really good. The couple of times I had beaten him at wrestling, he would tell me that someday, he would get me with the gloves on. well, that is another story not going into here, but after that matchup, we never fought again, not at either sport. We decide that if we were going to be friends, there was not much to gain fighting about it.
As his bride was laughing, finally my pal looked my way and went into convulsions. It seems the seat of my pants were non existent. Upon further scrutiny, it was noticed that there were holes starting to show in other areas of the pants as well. I found out later that the guy who had given me the pants had spattered acid on them, but supposedly had washed them immediately. I don't even remember who it was, so he must not have been one of my best friends. Was I set up? I never really knew. All i remember was the results. By the time I got home that nite, my pants were somewhat non existent. It took a long time for me to outpace the razzing i got with each visit to listen to the Thursday nite fights. [wink]
Just one of the little side benefits to using muriatic acid. The slightest spatter can be quite embarrassing. But the real health hazards are no where near as funny.
Tinker
Cheese
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[member=19511]Scott B[/member]
Curious how efficient the dust extraction is with the RAS and the abrasive disc.
Also, when you were cleaning the concrete, did you need to mount a diamond cup wheel to the RAS for grinding the floor, if so how was the dust extraction?
Scott B. said:
Curious how efficient the dust extraction is with the RAS and the abrasive disc.
Also, when you were cleaning the concrete, did you need to mount a diamond cup wheel to the RAS for grinding the floor, if so how was the dust extraction?
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[member=550]Tinker[/member] Great story, as always! Funny stuff. To your question, we went old school muriatic on this one, with all the proper ppe. I don't mess around with that stuff. I caught a snoot full of its vapor years ago, and it is like getting a knife up the nostril.
[member=44099]Cheese[/member] To clarify, the concrete prep was primarily a chemical (acid) etch. Mostly because we knew what was in the floor for a sealer. Wouldn't have been a fun mechanical prep. We used the RAS to grind some of the fire damage related issues (melting into the concrete). We just went 24 grit, no diamond. The RAS extraction is pretty good, and completely dependent on how you position the shroud. I say "pretty good" by grinder standards, but certainly not up to par with a Rotex for extraction. When we pull out the RAS, its with the understanding that it is a dirty job, so while we do use extraction, we still expect to vacuum after. mostly because of the amount of material that the RAS removes. It is understandable that it would be difficult for extraction to keep up with the RAS' sheer rate of removal, especially given its abrasive design (no holes, all shroud based).
[member=44099]Cheese[/member] To clarify, the concrete prep was primarily a chemical (acid) etch. Mostly because we knew what was in the floor for a sealer. Wouldn't have been a fun mechanical prep. We used the RAS to grind some of the fire damage related issues (melting into the concrete). We just went 24 grit, no diamond. The RAS extraction is pretty good, and completely dependent on how you position the shroud. I say "pretty good" by grinder standards, but certainly not up to par with a Rotex for extraction. When we pull out the RAS, its with the understanding that it is a dirty job, so while we do use extraction, we still expect to vacuum after. mostly because of the amount of material that the RAS removes. It is understandable that it would be difficult for extraction to keep up with the RAS' sheer rate of removal, especially given its abrasive design (no holes, all shroud based).
Scott B. said:
Same thing with the first time I ever used it. Pretty darned scary. I had to get out side in a hurry. I had to concentrate to not breath deeply. I wanted air, but knew that a deep breath could be very dangerous. Even after getting out side, i did not take a deep breath until the burning abated. Luckily, that was one of the things learned by going thru teargas chamber in basic training. Luckily, I do not panic in such situations as long as I have room to move my body, legs and arms. Claustrophobia is my horror. [scared] [scared] [scared]
Tinker
Cheese
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[member=19511]Scott B[/member]
Thanks for the reply.
I'm really interested in the RAS evacuation capabilities because I veneer a lot of bluestone to concrete steps. Before the final installation of the bluestone, most of the concrete has to be smoothed out to remove the high spots. Using a Milwaukee 5" grinder and diamond cup wheel, seriously, after 5 minutes of grinding I have to stop and let the dust settle as I cannot see the work surface clearly. I was thinking about the RAS for concrete work earlier this week and then I saw your post last night. Timely
Thanks for the reply.
I'm really interested in the RAS evacuation capabilities because I veneer a lot of bluestone to concrete steps. Before the final installation of the bluestone, most of the concrete has to be smoothed out to remove the high spots. Using a Milwaukee 5" grinder and diamond cup wheel, seriously, after 5 minutes of grinding I have to stop and let the dust settle as I cannot see the work surface clearly. I was thinking about the RAS for concrete work earlier this week and then I saw your post last night. Timely
Cheese
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Scott B. said:
Interesting conversation and a bit scary really. I remember about a year ago Japan grounded its entire fleet of Boeing Dreamliners because of LiIon battery fires. Further research points out that heated gloves & jackets, laptops, cellphones, tablets, power tools, flashlights, bicycle lights among other items have all been recalled. Also effective Jan 1 2015 the IATA & DOT Hazmat have changed the transportation rules on LiIon batteries.
http://www.iata.org/lithiumbatteries
http://hazmat.dot.gov
I guess my take-away is that it's less an electrical connection issue and more likely a failing cell in a LiIon battery that starts the fire.
Here's a video on a laptop fire/explosion.
http://www.techlicious.com/blog/the-risk-of-exploding-lithium-ion-batteries/
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Very good points, Cheese.
The origin of this fire was a benchtop outlet strip loaded up with cordless tools charging. I know in my shop, its easy to get a bunch of odd shaped and sized plugs on the same strip with some wonkiness. Factor in the outdated nature of the strip and the chargers, and overheat them (with loose connection possible), and you can likely end up with a burnt house.
More than anything, that is why I posted this thread. Just a good reminder of how much restoring a partially burned and fully smoked house can suck. And cost.
The origin of this fire was a benchtop outlet strip loaded up with cordless tools charging. I know in my shop, its easy to get a bunch of odd shaped and sized plugs on the same strip with some wonkiness. Factor in the outdated nature of the strip and the chargers, and overheat them (with loose connection possible), and you can likely end up with a burnt house.
More than anything, that is why I posted this thread. Just a good reminder of how much restoring a partially burned and fully smoked house can suck. And cost.
Sparktrician
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Scott B. said:
Precisely!!! The worst offenders are the kind of switches and receptacle known as "stab-ins". Over time the teeth lose their springiness and connections get loose and corroded causing high-resistance short circuits, some of which become fires. Be sure to use the devices with screw-down connections.
Sparktrician
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