EZ Stuff

[Eli]

Here's the deleted post from the other thread about festool rails compared to this system. I've never tried it, and wrote these comments after watching the product demo video. Apologies if you think the EZ is the best thing since sliced bread.

"I just watched this video for the ]EZ, and I'm not sure how these compare. I'm newly appreciative of safe working conditions now that I have Festool.

First of all, are you using this rail with Festool stuff? No dust extraction then (others will do it, but really, are they as good at that? One point Festool)

Second, in the product video the demonstrator didn't clamp the work down. Why? because there is no function with this to clamp the rail to the work that I saw. Let alone a dedicated table to cut on that holds most workpieces for crosscutting captive (The MFT is both of these and more. Point two, Festool)

Third, Did you notice how, having not clamped the rail to the work or the work to the table, he has to hold the offcut behind the saw's path? Somebody will lose a thumb someday. The way the stops are designed on this rail you must maintain pressure against the outside of the offcut to keep it accurate. He makes a point of that. That means every time you cut you automatically risk binding. Do other saws plunge? Some. Do other saws have a retractable riving knife to prevent kickback? I don't know of any. He also demonstrates that to finish the cut, you must reach in next to the blade and flick the guide away. Every cut. (I'm going to call that game in favor of Festool)

There are pages and pages of threads here on how to get square cuts on your MFT. At least four or five major tips I can think of (few of which I've actually used, I just tried real hard and set it square, then made a pencil mark on the top so I could reset it. I check it every so often. It's close enough for G jobs most of the time, and when it's really critical, I check it again.)

I wouldn't even put these things in the same class. I'm not taking away from anyone who uses them and loves them. Massive respect  Grin to all workers and work methods. I just don't think it's a fair match."

 

[Tinker]

Eli, i think you made some very good points.  to bad you had to move. 

I did go to the vid and was especially impressed with the proximity of fingers to blade.  At one point, the demonstrator was especially careleee IMHO when he was playing with the clamp with his fingers right close to being underneathe the blade.

I have watched other demonstrators on other sites where they seem to have a complete disdain for blade safety.  One of my most vehiment pet peeves has been the countless times i have watched Nahmy on his TV show nonchalantly brushing the dust from the table before he prepares to make a cut.  his first step was always turn on the saw.  Second step, brush the table directly in front of the blade.  Third step, resume cutting.  My stomach always churned when i saw this.

it is so easy to be careless when one has developed a strong familiarity with a certain tool.  A saying i was given when i bought my first motor cycle was, "Remember, always remember and then think about it.  Familiarity breeds contempt."  today, that thought is especially important when working in my wood shop or when working with the equipment of my daytime business.

I think the one feature i have been most impressed with concerning Festool is that Festool has tried to design safety to the max in all of their tools.  you touched on that in your report.

too bad others did not take note.  i think over all, it was a good report with some very important observations.

Thanks from this corner of the world.  When i have a little more time, i will relate a very true story (from my days as a mason contractor) to you about the proximity geographically of australia to connecticut.  I think you might appreciate, altho it is so far off topic from festool subject I dare not tell it here

Tinker

 

[Eli]

We're already off-topic. IMO, how much further do we have to walk away until we can chinwag? Throw your story up here. It's my thread, I'm not offended if you lead us away from the EZ thing. I think it's a boring debate anyway. I was done when I wrote it, and I've had to rewrite it three times.......

For the record, I didn't have to move. Nobody asked me to. I just want to do stuff like that proactively to try and hold an example firm so we don't muddy up the carpet in Matthew's house. I'm glad Dan said something. It's not too hard for everybody to stay happy.

 

[Eli]

Poking around looking for the best deal on a Radi-plane (would you believe $45 for the one I've seen in OZ), I saw that Rockler has some clamp guidesclamp guides on sale for those who were talking about router guides in the other thread.

 

[mysterium]

Tinker said "Thanks from this corner of the world.  When i have a little more time, i will relate a very true story (from my days as a mason contractor) to you about the proximity geographically of australia to connecticut.  I think you might appreciate, altho it is so far off topic from festool subject I dare not tell it here "


And "Thanks from Minnesota too!!!"

Tinker let's hear your story....  it is the "Off Topic Section"

jim

 

[Jim McFarland]

** deleted as I missed the point **

 

[Jim McFarland]

** deleted as no longer applicable **

 

[Scrap]

Eli, just for the sake of this discussion I will say that of your 3 points, only 2 are valid. Festool has awesome dust collection, which is very important to me and why I would rather buy into the Festool brand than EZ.

You can use Festool inside somebody's house, not so much with EZ Smart. That alone means Festool wins for me since I do have to work in people's houses sometimes and hate having to run outside to do a cut only to come back in and find out that it was a little off so I have to do it again.

 

[Eli]

That was the entire Kapex purchase argument for me, not having to run up and down stairs to hang crown molding!

Don't be scared, I think we can talk about the EZ here. Shit it's like handling uranium isn't it? How did you feel about it safety wise after watching the video? I'd love to see somebody demonstrate it like that at a trade show....

 

[neoshed]

I'll add my 2p's worth as I had the ez and then sold it to go to festool.

My main reason is the ts55 and the vac. I hate the mess and the only way to get close to the festool in terms of dust and a riving knife would be to get the hilti 267 (300$) and add the cost of the EZ and you've paid for the ts55.

I think the EZ is a good concept but I can't help feel it's a bitza system, bits of this and bits of that.

I think the table ( mft or pbb ) approach with a stop is better than relying on the repeater idea.

 

[Dino]

Here's the deleted post from the other thread about festool rails compared to this system. I've never tried it, and wrote these comments after watching the product demo video. Apologies if you think the EZ is the best thing since sliced bread.

"I just watched this video for the ]EZ, and I'm not sure how these compare. I'm newly appreciative of safe working conditions now that I have Festool.

Eli,
Safety comes from the ability to cut narrow stock and to have repeatability without the need to use dangerous tools.
Ez delivers safety in many ways.  ( Smart clamping system,  repeaters, powerbench  and more )
 


Over 5 years without one kickback reported yet. I don't think you can say that for any other system.
The records shown otherwise.

First of all, are you using this rail with Festool stuff? No dust extraction then (others will do it, but really, are they as good at that? One point Festool)

I will take this point back. You can have better dust collection with a simple ez dust port and dust shield.
In this video you can see the results. If not 100%, 99% for sure.
Make a similar video and if you can achieve the same results, I will give you your dust point. 
Dust collection on the PC 314.

Second, in the product video the demonstrator didn't clamp the work down. Why? because there is no function with this to clamp the rail to the work that I saw. Let alone a dedicated table to cut on that holds most workpieces for crosscutting captive (The MFT is both of these and more. Point two, Festool)

No need to clamp the materials when using the repeaters. But  If you like to use clamps, you can use the smart clamps with the repeaters. The first generation of the ez repeaters offered an integrated smart clamping system. After customer feedback, we remove the smart clamping system from the repeaters and lower the price by $100.00.

Third, Did you notice how, having not clamped the rail to the work or the work to the table, he has to hold the offcut behind the saw's path? Somebody will lose a thumb someday. The way the stops are designed on this rail you must maintain pressure against the outside of the offcut to keep it accurate. He makes a point of that. That means every time you cut you automatically risk binding.

To lose a thumb you must first have a kickback. The super strong, double wall extruded ez rails keep the saw flat and stable to the  1/4" track. The  large ez smart base provides  even more stability. There is no flexing = no kickback.

Do other saws plunge? Some. Do other saws have a retractable riving knife to prevent kickback? I don't know of any. He also demonstrates that to finish the cut, you must reach in next to the blade and flick the guide away. Every cut. (I'm going to call that game in favor of Festool)

All saws can plunge. Maybe not as accurate as a plunge saw but with more safety.
A front plunge saw is not always the best way to plunge.
On the other hand, a plunge saw is only good for some tasks. Not the right saw for free hand cuts
and not always the easiest and safest saw on the guide rails.

There are pages and pages of threads here on how to get square cuts on your MFT. At least four or five major tips I can think of (few of which I've actually used, I just tried real hard and set it square, then made a pencil mark on the top so I could reset it. I check it every so often. It's close enough for G jobs most of the time, and when it's really critical, I check it again.)

I agree on that one. Pages and pages. Close enough. Check it again. : :

I wouldn't even put these things in the same class. I'm not taking away from anyone who uses them and loves them. Massive respect  Grin to all workers and work methods. I just don't think it's a fair match."

Not a match at all.
Two different systems with different goals in mind.

Like me and you.
My goal was to make woodworking safe and your goal is to safeguard your buying decision.

If you don't agree with me even after watching the provided links, I understand.
Sorry for taking all your points back.
If I don't provide information to keep the facts straight, at the end I may have to agree with you.

With my best Regards.

Dino Makropoulos
Eurekazone Inc.
Edison NJ USA.

 

[dltflt]

I unfortunately own an EZ.  I purchased that in lieu of the Festool guide rail system because of cost.  I should know better than to buy cheap because you always get what you pay for.

It does have clamps to attach to the work piece.  The problem with those clamps are they are located  towards the sides of the rails, so when you clamp to the work piece it is not parallel to the work piece.  The other problem I have with it is you have to attach a plastic base that has the groove to ride on the guide rail to your saw.  It is a universal base and the countersunk holes provided did not work with my saw, so I had to make my own.  The other issue with attaching this base is it has to be perfectly parallel to the saw blade, which is not easy to do.

I'm hoping to get the TS 75/MFT combo next month when I get my bonus from work.  The reason I say hoping is my son is getting married in September and the money may end up being used for that.  Maybe I should buy that as a wedding present then I could use it when ever I wanted.  FYI he does not do any wood working.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

I unfortunately own an EZ.  I purchased that in lieu of the Festool guide rail system because of cost.  I should know better than to buy cheap because you always get what you pay for.

It does have clamps to attach to the work piece.  The problem with those clamps are they are located  towards the sides of the rails, so when you clamp to the work piece it is not parallel to the work piece. Please give more details - the clamps just hold the workpiece to the rail. The other problem I have with it is you have to attach a plastic base that has the groove to ride on the guide rail to your saw.  It is a universal base and the countersunk holes provided did not work with my saw, so I had to make my own.Most saws require you to drill new holes - that's the flexibility of the system. It allows you to use a $100 saw instead of a $500 saw.  The other issue with attaching this base is it has to be perfectly parallel to the saw blade, which is not easy to do.Yes, it needs to be parallel (just like a TS) but not perfectly - there are leveling screws provided to help alignment. If the manufactures made their saw bases parallel to the blade you wouldn't need adjusting screws (imagine people using straight edges with a stock saw base edge - the gross misalignment just makes the saw & you work harder). Today you could also buy an EZ-Ready saw or send in your own to EZ and they will apply the base for you.

I'm hoping to get the TS 75/MFT combo next month when I get my bonus from work.  The reason I say hoping is my son is getting married in September and the money may end up being used for that.  Maybe I should buy that as a wedding present then I could use it when ever I wanted.  FYI he does not do any wood working.

I recently bought a Domino but own and have used an EZ rail system for some time and love it. Watch the videos Dino referred to or if you have questions please PM me. I'm sure your issues are minor. (Save you $ for your son's wedding .)

Mike

 

[Dave Rudy]

Mike,

The deciding factor for me is this -- I have seen lots of posts (in a number of forums) by people who had the EZ and bought Festool, and compare the two -- these poster ALWAYS put Festool ahead.

There are a lot of people who want to defend only the tool they have.  These opinions are usually not too valuable to me, because they don't represent a legitimate comparison.

I have never tried the EZ system.  I have had the Festool saws and rails for a number of years -- no reason to switch!

 

[Mike Goetzke]

Mike,

The deciding factor for me is this -- I have seen lots of posts (in a number of forums) by people who had the EZ and bought Festool, and compare the two -- these poster ALWAYS put Festool ahead.

There are a lot of people who want to defend only the tool they have.  These opinions are usually not too valuable to me, because they don't represent a legitimate comparison.

I have never tried the EZ system.  I have had the Festool saws and rails for a number of years -- no reason to switch!

Please read my post - it was a response to specific problems Don T was having with an EZ rail (not an EZ vs FT post). This is the rail I have and had excellent results with - so no reason to switch for me either. Just hoping to help him out and save him some wedding $  ;D.

Mike

 

[dltflt]

I will try to explain.  The anti chip edges holds the rail off the workpiece and when you clamp it tips the rail slightly to the side you placed clamp.  That's what I think it is.  I may be all wet.  Mike I will try to get a picture of the problem tomorrow.

 

[Dino]

I will try to explain.  The anti chip edges holds the rail off the workpiece and when you clamp it tips the rail slightly to the side you placed clamp.  That's what I think it is.  I may be all wet.   Mike I will try to get a picture of the problem tomorrow.

Don,
It only takes one call to solve a problem.
My cell is printed on the instructions. 732-259-9984
Knowning that many of us don't read instructions,
instead of trying to cover up with more and more instructions : :
...we make the system better and better all the time.
The New Antichip edges solved your problem. (overclamping)

Few weeks ago I started a thread on the ez forum about "  Problems and only Problems"
ALL problems are solved. User fault or not, the ez system works as advertized.

One more thing that I like to post here is our exclusive policy.
If , for any reason the tool don't work as advertized you can return it and get all your money back.
One month or one year later. ( with explanation)
If we make any of our tools better and you don't like your old version, you can upgrade your old tool for free. ( Minus shipping)
So far we had few upgrates.
Repeaters, square, cabinetmaker and SRK.

Enjoy the weekend.

 

[vteknical]

Hi Dino,

Nice to see someone stand behind their product like this! Looks like a well thought out design!

Victor

 

[johnsonri]

Hi there Dino,

Seems odd seeing you here.  Great to see the limits that you are willing to go to support your system!! I wish that other vendors would follow your lead! (Note: not a reference to Festool or Festool vendors; I believe they do a good job).

Anyway, I am a big supporter/user of the Festool system. I started out though, using the EZ system. I can say without hesitation, that EZ is a great system and definitely has a place among the elite of rail systems.

After watching some of the recent EZ vidoes, it certainly appears that your system is developing very nicely. Keep up the nice work, and pumping out the great products!!!

Your work is a win/win situation in my eyes. The EZ system users get great products, and Festool gets competition. Competition forces Festool to stay on its toes and continue development to stay on top.

 

[Daviddubya]

Hi Dino,

Wouldn't it be prudent to take this discussion to your own forum at Sawmill Creek, rather than continuing it here?