Feedback Please - Sawstop Jobsite or Bosch Reaxx?

[Dan Clark]

Hi folks,

It's been a while since I posted.    Since I'm thinking about retiring in February, 2017, I'm trying to upgrade my very modest workshop and tool setup.  One major buy will be to replace my Dewalt DW745 table saw with either a Bosch Reaxx or Sawstop Jobsite saw. 

So question 1 is: Why not a bigger saw?  If I could figure out how to stuff it in my workshop, a Sawstop cabinet saw would be mine [drooling].  But alas, my space is way to small.  How small, you ask?  See the pics below.  Yep, that's the garage space in front and to the side of our cars.  Moving the cars outside is feasible when necessary, but our driveway is steep and covered with trees - which drop needles all over the place.  And it rains "a bit" in the Seattle area.  So it's a hassle to keep the cars outside and I make do with limited space.  And my Festools of course. 

After much measuring it looks like nothing bigger than a Bosch Reaxx or Sawstop Jobsite will fit.  Given their obvious safety features, they are the only ones that made the short list.  Those safety features got really important to me a few days ago when not watching carefully, I reached over my DW745's spinning blade to pull out the off cut.    I mean less than 1/2" from the spinning blade!  [scared]

While most of my marbles are still in place, I'm a fuzzy-headed software developer by profession.  Fuzzy-headed is good for software development but NOT good for sharp spinning objects!  So it's time for me to get better safety ASAP.  (Software developers need their fingers for typin'.) 

So which would you choose or have chosen - Bosch Reaxx or Sawstop Jobsite?  From reviews, the Sawstop has a very slight blade safety advantage, but each has some features and pluses that the other does not.  So now it's head-scratchin' time.  What do you think?

Thanks,

Dan.

p.s. I hope to be posting here a lot more in the future.

 

[copcarcollector]

I have a ss cabinet saw, but I like the fact the Bosch does not destroy the blade when the safety mechanism is fired

 

[Dan Clark]

I have a ss cabinet saw, but I like the fact the Bosch does not destroy the blade when the safety mechanism is fired

Copcarcollecter,

Thanks. Yep, blade destruction was one of the issues I had in mind.  And, I like that the Bosch cartridge can handle both standard blades and dado sets, while the Sawstop needs a special dado cartridge.

Thanks again,

Dan.

 

[oz_diy]

I am also looking at these two saws.

My preference is the SawStop for 1 major reason, you can test the conductivity and turn the feature off if necessary.  I don't think the Bosch can do this.

Still early days in my research, I may be wrong.

As my Wife tells me all the time, She may not always be Right but she is never Wrong!!!!!!

 

[Kevin D.]

Bosch is a massive company.  Like really massive.  SS is an interloper with a decrepid path in their approach into the market and although SS does make a good product from what I've read so far,  still, there's there's the risk of obselevence and lack of parts/supplies later.

Bosch wilĺ always have your back, no risk of them going belly-up.  Just how they operate, bank on Bosch.  Look on the internet at the founders vision and how it has carried on.  Bosch is top notch! What I respect a lot was they were not subserviant to the Nazis in WW2.  Aĺways a family owned company.

BTW, no, I'm not German.  Lol! Just a fan of German gear/tools.  Especially the onse who are exempliary like Bosch.

 

[chrisrosenb]

I am also looking at these two saws.

My preference is the SawStop for 1 major reason, you can test the conductivity and turn the feature off if necessary.  I don't think the Bosch can do this.

Still early days in my research, I may be wrong.

As my Wife tells me all the time, She may not always be Right but she is never Wrong!!!!!!

You can also turn the safety feature off on the Bosch REAXX.

 

[pixelated]

I've not looked closely at the Saw Stop saw nor the Reaxx, but all of the small job site saws seem fundamentally similar.

I would probably choose the Bosch because the blade doesn't get destroyed, and two activations are possible with the cartridge. Though if you activate it, it's probably time to stop for a bit before resetting the cartridge [smile].

I have a Bosch 4100 for my minuscule shop that I've been generally happy with. There are extension rails available for it (and I presume the Reaxx as well) that help a lot of you're working with large pieces. I don't know if that's an option for the Saw Stop. The guard on the Bosch is easy to work with and is never in the way, the rip fence is solid, the saw is quick to set up or take down. The "gravity rise" stand is easy to use. On the minus side, the thing I really miss from my old iron top saw is the ability to use magnetic feather boards.

 

[Holmz]

That is a nice looking shop, and I see we also have some tools in common.
(And your Mrs must also be a saint)

Is there really a compelling need to replace the deWalt?
It looks like it is pretty well setup.
I get the part about the safety, but with the organisation apparent in the shop, I would like to believe that your tool hygiene is also good.

But if you use it a lot, then i suppose that it makes more sense.

 

[RKA]

It is possible Bosch looses the legal cases pending and has to stop selling saws and cartridges containing the safety feature or pay sawstop royalties and damages in order to continue.  I have more questions than answers here, but I have a little more faith the sawstop and parts will continue to be available. 

That aside, I'm not terribly swayed to one over the other in terms of safety.  I would boil it down to the quality of the saw/fence/parts and choose the one I felt was better.  That's what I will notice every day.  Unfortunately I don't have any experience to draw upon to provide further insight.

 

[Paul G]

This insert really was a big help to my SS jobsitehttp://www.colliflower-zci.com/all-products/sawstop-jobsite-zci

 

[rljatl]

Your shop is just like mine - front and to the side of the car on the right side.  Have to keep my car parked in there too.  (I am also in IT.  I am a PM, but 10 years from retirement.)

I have the Bosch Reaxx saw and really like it.  The fence on the Bosch is superier to the SS fence.  I added Jessem Clear Cut guides to mine without modification.

The fence is extruded aluminum under the replaceable plastic with a T-track on top and locks at the front and back.

No special cartridge required when using a dado blade.  This saves money, time and hassle.

The only slight negative I have found is the angle adjustment.  When you release the lock, the weight of the motor swings the assembly down to it's lowest point.  Not that big of a deal if you use an angle gauge like a Wixely.

BTW, the motor is not direct drive.  The motor drives the blade by way of a belt.  This was done due to the design of the safety mechanism, but it also has the effect of reducing vibration.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Hi folks,

It's been a while since I posted.    Since I'm thinking about retiring in February, 2017, I'm trying to upgrade my very modest workshop and tool setup.  One major buy will be to replace my Dewalt DW745 table saw with either a Bosch Reaxx or Sawstop Jobsite saw. 

So question 1 is: Why not a bigger saw?  If I could figure out how to stuff it in my workshop, a Sawstop cabinet saw would be mine [drooling].  But alas, my space is way to small.  How small, you ask?  See the pics below.  Yep, that's the garage space in front and to the side of our cars.  Moving the cars outside is feasible when necessary, but our driveway is steep and covered with trees - which drop needles all over the place.  And it rains "a bit" in the Seattle area.  So it's a hassle to keep the cars outside and I make do with limited space.  And my Festools of course. 

After much measuring it looks like nothing bigger than a Bosch Reaxx or Sawstop Jobsite will fit.  Given their obvious safety features, they are the only ones that made the short list.  Those safety features got really important to me a few days ago when not watching carefully, I reached over my DW745's spinning blade to pull out the off cut.    I mean less than 1/2" from the spinning blade!  [scared]

While most of my marbles are still in place, I'm a fuzzy-headed software developer by profession.  Fuzzy-headed is good for software development but NOT good for sharp spinning objects!  So it's time for me to get better safety ASAP.  (Software developers need their fingers for typin'.) 

So which would you choose or have chosen - Bosch Reaxx or Sawstop Jobsite?  From reviews, the Sawstop has a very slight blade safety advantage, but each has some features and pluses that the other does not.  So now it's head-scratchin' time.  What do you think?

Thanks,

Dan.

p.s. I hope to be posting here a lot more in the future.

So, you'll no longer need two cars?

 

[grbmds]

[member=6717]Dan Clark[/member] I have owned the Sawstop Jobsite saw since the first month it was sold and love it. I have found that it is accurate, the dust collection is efficient (not perfect and best with the blade guard/riving knife as opposed to just the riving knife), and most of all, very convenient.

Crosscuts - I use a TS55 on an MFT for most crosscuts, but those I do on the SS are clean.

Ripping - The included blade does a great job ripping (although you can do better with a Freud Fusion blade). I did do a slight adjustment to the rip fence cursor at first, but it has been essentially perfect since then and parallel to the blade.

Power - Plenty of power for my use. I have ripped 8/4 quarter sawn oak and recently 1" maple with no problems.

Weaknesses -
    1. The miter gauge is very cheap and SS should have provided a better one than was provided. I upgraded mine to one of the Incra's miter gauges and that is much better.
    2. Table insert is plastic and flexible. I saw the link in one of the other posts here and am looking into that insert. SS has replaced my insert twice because I complained about the fact I couldn't get it adjusted flush with the table on all sides. The last one is very close but still isn't perfect.
    3. The distance from the front of the table to the blade is short, but that is true with all jobsite saws.

Dust collection is great, but I found I got the best results with my larger cyclone dust collector. Others say that they have used a Festool CT and it is fine.

Fold up legs - The fact that I can easily fold the saw up and roll it into a corner out of the way is a favorite feature for me and one of the reasons I bought a jobsite saw.

I have not owned or used the Bosch Reaxx saw but have heard via reviews that it also looks great. I believe it is at least $100 more than the SS and, of course, is involved in litigation right now. I believe that either would serve your needs. Nothing except results matters to me and I get great results from my SS Jobsite saw, especially for ripping.

 

[Billedis]

I purchased the SS jobsite saw in March of this year after selling my 3hp Grizzly and have never looked back.  Mine has worked flawlessly  both with regular blade and dado.  I've never used the mitre gauge, but agree it is a bit flimsy.  It looks like it was made to fit in the storage compartment rather than an efficient mitre gauge.  The fence is spot on.  I also purchased the optional vac/blade guard, and the dust is about the same as my TS55.  I have not seen or used the Bosch so cannot comment there.  Bill

 

[Dan Clark]

Folks,

Hi.  I'm blown away by the great responses    I'm at work now, so my detailed comments will have to wait until this evening.  For now, please accept my sincere gratitude for the excellent, thoughtful feedback.

Best regards,

Dan.

 

[nerves]

post your decision and review.

 

[ChuckM]

None of the above, Dan -- unless money is a huge factor in your consideration (as a retirement gift to yourself, a budget of $3,500(?) should not be a lot of money. Some people buy themselves a luxury car when they retire.).

Looking at the pictures, I'd say your two-car garage looks the same size (if not bigger than) as mine, and I own a SS cabinet saw. By reorganizing your shop (the Festool stuff can be moved to another spot or even into the house (like my Domino Joiner) if it is not used on a daily basis), I see no reason why you can't fit a cabinet saw into your "shop." I park my cars in the garage at night and all heavy power tools or machines (bandsaw, thickness planer, etc.) are on castors in my shop.

If you can afford it and are serious about woodworking quality, I would steer you to reconsider your choice. Contractor saws, let alone jobsite saws, can't compare themselves to a cabinet saw like the SawStop. Day & night. The SS cabinet saw -- when fitted with the hydraulic base -- glides and I can move it anywhere in my shop.

Get the SS overhead dust collection (the best available in the market) with the saw and you'll enjoy woodworking like never before. Once set up, you never need to second guess your cuts -- straight and square every time. Can we say the same thing about a jobsite saw? I doubt it.

Of course, if you aren't overly worried about the cut results (e.g. DIY type projects: decks, outdoor furniture, etc.), the cabinet saw may not be needed. If you plan to go into furniture making, chairs, etc. a good quality cabinet saw is worth the investment.

I can't believe how more efficient I've become in the shop since I installed the SS. The rip cuts -- most of them -- are close to being dust free, too. I wear my mask a lot less these days (just turn on the dust filtration system).

See the photo that shows my SS tucked in the corner of my shop -- you need only 40" of clearance from the wall (38" the min.).

Chuck
PS Depending on the saw's model, you can keep some of the systainers under the extension table.

 

[Paul G]

None of the above, Dan -- unless money is a huge factor in your consideration (as a retirement gift to yourself, a budget of $3,500(?) should not be a lot of money. Some people buy themselves a luxury car when they retire.).

Looking at the pictures, I'd say your two-car garage looks the same size (if not bigger than) as mine, and I own a SS cabinet saw. By reorganizing your shop (the Festool stuff can be moved to another spot or even into the house (like my Domino Joiner) if it is not used on a daily basis), I see no reason why you can't fit a cabinet saw into your "shop." I park my cars in the garage at night and all heavy power tools or machines (bandsaw, thickness planer, etc.) are on castors in my shop.

If you can afford it and are serious about woodworking quality, I would steer you to reconsider your choice. Contractor saws, let alone jobsite saws, can't compare themselves to a cabinet saw like the SawStop. Day & night. The SS cabinet saw -- when fitted with the hydraulic base -- glides and I can move it anywhere in my shop.

Get the SS overhead dust collection (the best available in the market) with the saw and you'll enjoy woodworking like never before. Once set up, you never need to second guess your cuts -- straight and square every time. Can we say the same thing about a jobsite saw? I doubt it.

Of course, if you aren't overly worried about the cut results (e.g. DIY type projects: decks, outdoor furniture, etc.), the cabinet saw may not be needed. If you plan to go into furniture making, chairs, etc. a good quality cabinet saw is worth the investment.

I can't believe how more efficient I've become in the shop since I installed the SS. The rip cuts -- most of them -- are close to being dust free, too. I wear my mask a lot less these days (just turn on the dust filtration system).

See the photo that shows my SS tucked in the corner of my shop -- you need only 40" of clearance from the wall (38" the min.).

Chuck
PS Depending on the saw's model, you can keep some of the systainers under the extension table.

As much as I like my SS jobsite I must agree with your comments, if at all possible go for the cabinet saw, I'll be adding one eventually when space allows.

 

[Samo]

Dan,

Have you looked at the SS Jobsite webpage?  Some good information there to research.
http://www.sawstop.com/compare-the-sawstop-jobsite-saw

Smart move to get a saw that is safer, for sure.

Congratulations on the plans to spend more time with the tools [big grin]

 

[Dan Clark]

Oz_diy, Kevin, JD, pixelated, Holmz, Raj, Paul, RobBob, Michael, Randy, Billedis, nerves, Chuck, Paul, Samo,

Many thanks for the great feedback!  This is pretty awesome and ranges from great tips and pointers, to thought-provoking questions and issues, to one rather large kick in my nether regions (more on that below).  Really great stuff!!!

Regarding why I want to get rid of my Dewalt...  Quite frankly I'm nervous about of the Dewalt or any non-Reaxx/Sawstop saw.  My close miss with the blade a few days ago bothered me a lot and reminded me of at tablesaw mishap when I was a kid.  I took shop classes at the local Y.  While using a tablesaw, I cut my finger on the spinning blade.  Not a bad cut mind you, but it did require a bandage and some tape.  It scared the heck out of me.  Safety is a driving force for me.

The Sawstop and Bosch jobsite saws are a mix of pluses and minuses.  Overall though, I like the Bosch Reaxx slightly better.  Many features on both saws are pretty comparable.  However, based on your comments and my own research, there are some important differences:

The Reaxx:

-- Has built-in outfeed support that slides out and the blade is set back from the front edge about 2" further than the Sawstop.  I.e. somewhat better ability to handle longer material.

-- The rolling stand feels slightly better than the Sawstop's stand. 

-- The cartridge setup is nice because each activation will be about 1/3 to 1/4 the cost of a Sawstop activation. 

-- Bosch is a much bigger company, so long term stability MAY be better.  (More on that later.) 

On The Other Hand:

-- The Sawstop jobsite saw felt a bit more solid when I compared them side by side.  Not majorly, but a bit. 

-- While the Reaxx is cheaper to reset, the Sawstop has a conductivity test that can give you an idea of an activation possibility.   

-- Although Sawstop is a much smaller company, they are totally committed to their saws.  For them, it's critical to their survival.  So top-quality support MAY be better than Bosch.

-- The Sawstop is slightly safer.  In this live-human comparison, the Sawstop reacted faster than the Reaxx.  Virtually no scratches on the tester's hand for the Sawstop vs slight hand scratches for the Reaxx.  I think both are completely acceptable, but it is a factor.  The link: Reaxx Vs Sawstop Jobsite Saw Comparison and LIVE Test

-- Given that Sawstop saws have been out longer, there are more accessories available.  (I think.)

-- The Sawstop lawsuit, is the 800 lb gorilla in the room.  Sawstop won the initial court proceeding.  But they may not prevail and we won't know the final outcome until sometime early next year.  However...  IF I buy Bosch and it loses the lawsuit, I may be stuck with a useless hunk of iron.  I.e. no cartridges = dead in the water. 

Some caveats for both saws:

-- Both have an aluminum table.  No steel here.

-- Both are relatively small compared to a cabinet saw.

-- Both miter gauges have received poor reviews, but I'll probably buy another Incra miter guage.  So it's not an issue. 

And now we come the bull elephant that wandered into the room - the Sawstop cabinet saw.  Chuck's post made me stop and reconsider that VERY carefully.  While at Woodcraft, the Sawstop cabinet saw caught my eye.  Those are NICE.  All the features I could want and more!  Seriously tasty.  But I thought the size was too big.

This evening I decided to reorg my systainer stacks and remeasure to see if it was feasible to get the SS cabinet.  After about an hour of work, there are now two stacks of systainers left on the floor and the rest are on shelves.  Each stack is 30" tall on their rollers.  Those should fit under the cab's extension table.

So the 30" cab saw will fit and with the rolling hydraulic base, it should be pretty easy to pull the cab saw straight out and then tuck back in under those shelves when through cutting.  I'm sorely tempted! 

There is 220V in the garage.  Is the 220V Professional worth the extra cost over the 110V ?  What do you think?

Thanks and best regards,

Dan.

p.s.  That red car is my wife's Beetle.  The silver car is an SUV.  I need an SUV and my wife LOVES her Beetle.  Probably no chance of getting rid of either. 

p.p.s. I looked everywhere for detailed specs.  The Sawstop site has very good info.  However, like a lot of other sources, the Sawstop site has some conflicting and confusing information.  For example, while looking at the specs, I couldn't figure out how the Contractor saw could possibly be 40" deep.  However after looking at it in Woodcraft, it was obvious - the motor stuck out 10" in the back.  So figuring out these details can be tough.