Fein vs Festool

[dave tinley]

I need a vacuum to install under my workbench. It's only use will be hooked up to routers and sanders. I would like something very quiet.
I think I narrowed the choices down to the Fein Turbo II and the Festool CT Midi.

Or maybe there is another consideration???

Thanks
Dave

 

[tvgordon]

I read that Bosch makes a vacuum similar to the Festool and Fein.  I have not used the vacuums you listed but have the Festool CT22 and can highly recommend it.  Remember that if you are going to use it with a router you want a larger capacity (routers make a lot of chips and dust).

Tom.

 

[Brad Evans]

The Fein is quieter, has a larger capacity (even the Turbo I), has a longer and larger diameter hose, comes with a couple of wands, an MOST importantly for me, can be outfitted with a HEPA filter.

 

[Brad Evans]

>>>  Or maybe there is another consideration???

Fein Turbo I...

 

[rodwolfy]

Dave,

If you're going to hook them up to sanders, I'd recommend going with the Festool CT22. The Feins will work great for around the shop and picking up the collection from the router. However, the Festool vac has the ability to adjust the suction. When I used my RO150, my Fein really sucked it down to the work surface. With the Festool that I'm getting, I'll be able to turn down the suction as needed so that the sander moves freely across the wood...

But like Brad said, get the HEPA version with whatever you get.

 

[Dan Clark]

Dave,

As a shop vac, or for routers and saws, either will do a great job.  For sanders, get a vac for with adjustable suction.  Here's an interesting thread about the DTS400 sander and the need to turn the suction way down:http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=2048.0. 

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Dan Uhlir]

certainly you'll need both.dan

 

[Anthony]

Dave,

If you're going to hook them up to sanders, I'd recommend going with the Festool CT22. The Feins will work great for around the shop and picking up the collection from the router. However, the Festool vac has the ability to adjust the suction. When I used my RO150, my Fein really sucked it down to the work surface. With the Festool that I'm getting, I'll be able to turn down the suction as needed so that the sander moves freely across the wood...

But like Brad said, get the HEPA version with whatever you get.

As rodwolfy said, variable suction is very important for sanding. I find with too much suction for the pad size, you et sticking down to the workpiece and chatter effect.

If you already have a Festool dust extractor, you will find the 'logic' of the auto-switching different on the Fein. Potentially dangerous as the socket is sometimes live when you don't expect it.

Although the advertised capacity of the Fein might be larger than a CT-MIDI, the design is such that the filter protrudes into the canister and greatly reduces the volume of the canister for bags. I would guess the CT-MIDI bag is larger than the Fein. Although I have not emptied out both of them and measured up the dust. Brad could express an opinion or confirm this point.

On the plus side for the Fein, excellent suction, long 5m hose - albeit non-anti-static. I find it an excellent home vac. I don't keep it in the shop anymore as for the above and below reasons.

One last comment from me. I lent one of my Fein vacs to a neighbour, he was refinishing his floors with an ETS 150 sander. After some time the dust extractor generated so much internal heat the Fein orange container became soft and sucked in on itself. He pushed it back out, but the unit still shows the sign of where it deformed.

 

[MarkF]

Cross post from Woodnet.  It addresses a method I use to reduce suction with the Fein.

Turbo II with a Gore Cleanstream HEPA filter (~$39 at Lowes, add duct tape or a large fender washer/nut/bolt/washer to the bottom to seal the filter). To regulate suction I use a Fein wye attached to the Turbo II. I drilled a 1/2" hole in the lid of the extra arm of the wye and either seal the hole in the lid w/ masking tape or take the tape off to open the leak. Open with the sanders, closed with the router, TS55 and general cleanup. Too much suction can make the sanders hop around.

The only thing I miss with the Fein is a flat top to store the systainers.

Mark (Tarhead)

 

[Brice Burrell]

I'm getting to this thread late and I really don't have a lot to add that hasn't already been said, but I not going to let that stop me.  ;D

  I went with the Festool vacs, CT mini and 22. The 22 is used most of the time in the shop with the boom arm. I know some people can't get past the price of the boom, but those of us that have one, we love it. That is a good reason to get a CT22 or 33 alone.

  Now to Mark's question. I have the mini, got it before the midi came out, very portable, more so than the Fein. The mini/midi with the built in hose garage keeps the cord and hose out of the way for transporting the vac and tools. Years ago while carrying a shop vac down steps the hose got under my foot and down I went, to make it even worse the vac beat me up (and the wall) the whole down. I've used the Fein and the long hose is both nice and a PIA. When want the extra reach its great, when you don't need it, the hose is in the way and a real hassle to transport since the Fein doesn't have a way to store the hose/cord on the vac. The mini/midi win in the portability category.

  Noise, to me this is a non-issue, I always use hearing protection. I'd say the difference in the noise between the vacs really isn't all that great anyhow. So, I don't think I'd factor this in when deciding. The antistatic hose is a plus for Festool, but some people like the Fein hose (non antistatic) better, its longer and more flexible than the Festool standard AS hose. As Anthony points out the Fein's capacity is deceiving, the turbo II and the midi are closer than Fein would have you believe. I don't know what the Fein's capacity is or how much the filter bag can hold before suction is reduced. I know the Festool is up front with the real capacity of the mini/midi. Plus the Festool vac filter bags can be stuffed almost solid and you don't really notice loss of suction. The Festool disposable filter bags hold up well and can be reused. I can't comment on the quality of Fein's filter bags.

  Three things give the Festools vacs a real edge. One, no adapters needed to fit all of the Festool tools. I don't want to screw around with an adapter to make them fit my tools, and I sure don't to get to the job and find out I didn't bring it. Second, being able to stack Systainers on top of the vac makes it easy to carry the vac and tool(s) around the job site. Third, and this is a big deal to me, variable suction. This is a must to get the best results from your Festool sanders. I know, the Fein hose can be altered to reduce the suction, but its not a dial control like on the Festool vac.

  The down side to the mini/midi, as already posted, no HEPA filter offered. I don't mind, but maybe this is a deal breaker to others. One more thing, the wheels on the Festool vacs can ware and possibly scratch floors. Festool sure rethink the wheels on all of their vacs.

  All in all, I'm very happy with my Festool vacs. In my mind there are no better portable vacuums (for use with tools nad small clean ups) than the CT Mini or Midi. For vacuuming any amount of large heavy debris, I wouldn't recommend the Fein or the Festool vacs. If you are going to buy a Festool vac, get it with a tool and get the discount. Good luck with your decision, let us know what you buy and how it works out.

 

[Dan Uhlir]

you can roll up the hose and put it inside the fein. I much prefer the fein for field work i.e. screws nails large chips etc. the festool usually stays home for sanding and stuff around the house. Recently i purchased the workshop cleaning set, suffice it to say dust  anywhere doesn't stand a chance walls and ceiling fans included nice enhancement.Now i had the fein before festool if i had to do it over i would give the mini strong consideration, but i'm cool with the fein. Really, you can hardly blame the vac hose for trippng over it, that's like blaming my ski's for falling, careful on those damn stairs  people get seriolusly injured and in fact expire. dan

 

[Brice Burrell]

  Dan, I'm not blaming the vac hose for tipping, just pointing out the Festool vacuums design helps prevent accidents by having a place to store the hose/cord. If you filter bag is almost full do you have room to store the hose inside?

 

[Brad Evans]

There seems to be a lot of FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) cast in the finest microsoft tradition. So I though I'd weigh in on individual points further since I OWN both vacs.

I would guess the CT-MIDI bag is larger than the Fein.

Absolutely not true!  Why guess and generate dispersions and misinformation?  Here's a pic of both bags.  Any doubt?  The Fein canister is substantially bigger - the bag conforms to the larger volume even with the filter.

As Anthony points out the Fein's capacity is deceiving, the turbo II and the midi are closer than Fein would have you believe. I don't know what the Fein's capacity is or how much the filter bag can hold before suction is reduced. I know the Festool is up front with the real capacity of the mini/midi.

Odd statement...  How is it deceiving since you don't know what the capacity is?  Are you suggesting Fein is not "upfront?" I have not found that to be the case.

I don't know what the Fein's capacity is or how much the filter bag can hold before suction is reduced.

Well, here's a real data point.  With my Fein bag about 75% full, the suction is still greater than the Midi.

Plus the Festool vac filter bags can be stuffed almost solid and you don't really notice loss of suction. The Festool disposable filter bags hold up well and can be reused. I can't comment on the quality of Fein's filter bags.
Three things give the Festools vacs a real edge.

If you can't comment on the quality of the Fein bags, how is the conclusion reached about the Festool vacs having a real edge?.  Just an FYI, the Fein bags are great quality and can be reused (if one desires, but I don't have time for that).  You can also use PC 7812 bags in a Fein vac.  This comes from real use, rather than on speculation...

If you already have a Festool dust extractor, you will find the 'logic' of the auto-switching different on the Fein. Potentially dangerous as the socket is sometimes live when you don't expect it.

Hmmm... Owning both vacs I don't understand. Being an engineer (electrical), when it comes to shop safety in concert with potential catastrophic results,  I don't trust any switch. That's why I unplug my tools when I change blades, bits, planer knives, and nuclear triggers.

I've used the Fein and the long hose is both nice and a PIA.

I just wrap it around the vac - the handle is, well, very handy...

The antistatic hose is a plus for Festool, but some people like the Fein hose (non antistatic) better

Yup, and I like the greater suction of the vac as well. Static isn't much of a problem here...

One more thing, the wheels on the Festool vacs can ware and possibly scratch floors. Festool sure rethink the wheels on all of their vacs.

Hmmm.... The Festool wheels and wheel frame are hard plastic.  The Fein wheels are rubber held within a metal frame.  Much softer on floors.  Here's a pic.  I also like the Fein clasps - their metal. Rather than the plastic claps and hinge pin on the Festool

One last comment from me. I lent one of my Fein vacs to a neighbour, he was refinishing his floors with an ETS 150 sander. After some time the dust extractor generated so much internal heat the Fein orange container became soft and sucked in on itself.

I'm surprised on that comment.  Perhaps he didn't use a filter bag and the canister became packed?  Did he vacuum up a lit cigarette butt and cause an internal fire.  Isn't speculation wonderful... Did a search and found no other mention of that occurring. I've used mine for 7+ years including home remodeling.  It's robust and runs cool. It's two stage bypass cooled motor is a big bonus.

On HEPA, yes, I'm a fanatic.  HEPA specifies a 99.97% collection of particles 0.3 micron and greater.  A generic 1 micron filter has no collection spec associated with it.  What is the collection; 99%, 80%, 75%?  Others can speculate, I'm not into that.

The Fein II is a much more robust vac than the Midi or Mini.  Now, with the CT-22/33, my conclusions would no doubt be totally different.

Just an FYI, I'm not trying to pick on anyone, or Festool, which is an outstanding tool manufacturer - I love their tools. It's just from some of the above statements, it really seems the comments are based on speculation and FUD rather than day-in-out ownership.

Hope the above is useful to somebody...

 

[Brad Evans]

Well, here's a real data point.  With my Fein bag about 75% full, the suction is still greater than the Midi.

That should be:

With my Fein bag about 75% full, the suction is still greater than the Midi with an empty bag...

 

[Anthony]

Plus the Festool vac filter bags can be stuffed almost solid and you don't really notice loss of suction. The Festool disposable filter bags hold up well and can be reused. I can't comment on the quality of Fein's filter bags.

The Festool bags sure can. I often get caught out overfilling a Festool bag (at least on the CT HEPA machines) as there was no noticeable loss of suction until it stops entirely and suddenly, then open the machine and notice a bag so full it is hard to get out.

The Fein bags are not as robust as the Festool. I have had them tear open. Although I cannot honestly recall if it was whilst in the vac, whilst taking it our when full, or when it was kicking about the place waiting to be disposed of. They are single ply only not double like the Festool, at least the ones we get here in Oz. I'm going to check for Fein being single/double ply again later today to make sure of my facts.

 

[Anthony]

Hi Brad,

Good post. But I will take some images later today in the workshop to explain my points better.

Edit - I mean for this comment to apply to Brads email that appears above this one. Must be a time zone thing.

 

[Brad Evans]

The Fein bags are not as robust as the Festool. I have had them tear open. Although I cannot honestly recall if it was whilst in the vac, whilst taking it our when full, or when it was kicking about the place waiting to be disposed of. They are single ply only not double like the Festool, at least the ones we get here in Oz. I'm going to check for Fein being single/double ply again later today to make sure of my facts.

Not true!  They're double ply as well with the tissue liner on the inside - just like the Fein.  Same thickness too.  I wouldn't be shocked if the paper from both bags came from the same manufacturer.  Or perhaps both use the same bag manufacturer.

Although I cannot honestly recall  ... to make sure of my facts.

Not trying to be rude or harsh, but perhaps getting facts first would be a better approach? 

Best - Brad

 

[Brad Evans]

Just an FYI, bag installation in the Midi is much easier than the Fein. Basically, you just set the bag down in the canister till the sides click in place.  On the Fein, the bag opening gasket needs to be pulled over the inlet.

But still, with no HEPA option, my lungs say no - that's the real deal-breaker.  Everything else is somewhat mice nuts...

 

[Forrest Anderson]

I have neither a Fein nor a Festool dust extractor, and instead I have a Vax wet and dry cylinder machine which looks rather like this one...

In fact, I have have three of them that I use with my TS55, router, sander and for household cleaning! They have a variable speed control for the motor, and are very quiet (especially at low speed, which I often use late at night so as not to disturb anyone).

One thing I don't like about them is that they all have a high centre of gravity, and quite often they fall over if I pull on the hose. The high-mounted motor, the small castors, the diameter of the base, and the height of the hose entry are all factors in the "tipability" of these machines.

My question is therefore "how 'tippable' are the Fein and Festool extractors, particularly when pulled by the hose"? Given the high-mounted motor, the Fein does look as though it might fall over more easily than the Festool, although I appreciate that there are several sizes of Festool extractor.

Forrest

 

[Anthony]

My question is therefore "how 'tippable' are the Fein and Festool extractors, particularly when pulled by the hose"?

I can't recall having tipped either the CT MINI/MIDI, CT HEPA or Fein over. And I love pulling extractors around by the hose. If they have, it's been a one-off and not enough to be memorable.