Felder PCS® Preventive Contact System

[Cheese]

The SawStop technology is almost 20 years now, and like it or not, it has saved more fingers than other table saw safety devices. If Felder's innovation is a step or many steps ahead of it, Dr. Gass should feel happy because it is his breakthrough that allowed such further safety innovation to happen. We must not forget that SawStop was a risky, unproven commercial proposal back then. Its subsequent business success paved the way for others to invest in improving the finger-saving technology.

Well let's not wax rhapsodic about the man. You've almost tried to elevate him into a sainthood position. He's simply a crafty attorney with deep pockets that invented something and then attempted to mandate it's inclusion on every single table saw sold in the US at a premium fee which would then gain him further financial benefit. He's not a Mother Theresa.

If he was as altruistic as he espouses to be, why would he have killed the Bosch Reaxx in the US? If you're truly interested in just saving fingers, you don't quash viable alternatives...you embrace them.

Sorry no pass for this guy...

 

[ChuckM]

Well let's not wax rhapsodic about the man. You've almost tried to elevate him into a sainthood position. He's simply a crafty attorney with deep pockets that invented something and then attempted to mandate it's inclusion on every single table saw sold in the US at a premium fee which would then gain him further financial benefit. He's not a Mother Theresa.

If he was as altruistic as he espouses to be, why would he have killed the Bosch Reaxx in the US? If you're truly interested in just saving fingers, you don't quash viable alternatives...you embrace them.

Sorry no pass for this guy...

Whether Dr. Gass is a saint or not, none of my business. I do know he was a successful inventor, and a successful businessman as judged by his invention and business accomplishments. His breakthrough technology has saved not only fingers but also the worklife of many, whether that qualified him to become a saint, again, is none of my concern. In fact, as a woodworker and as a SawStop user, I am not interested in any sainthood, I only care about my shop safety when using my table saw.

I also know every business or businessperson, SawStop or not, is entitled to protect their legitimate interests through the court. This is how the business world in a developed country works.

As far as I know, every safety feature I find in my car, I have paid for them, and they are not offered free by the dealership. Not everybody wants or needs the SawStop protection; I wanted it and so I paid full price for it.

 

[simonh]

I wonder how down-scaleable the Felder technology is.  The top-end Felder saws which this is featuring on already have a fair amount of computer processing power onboard. Those computers are presumably used in feeding data from 'detection sensors' into the computer to interpret the data and look for 'unusual' objects entering the blade area and then activate the blade drop. How scaleable all that is into contractor saw I'm not so sure. The Sawstop by contrast is a very simple hardware based conductivity circuit.

 

[Gregor]

I wonder how down-scaleable the Felder technology is.  The top-end Felder saws which this is featuring on already have a fair amount of computer processing power onboard. Those computers are presumably used in feeding data from 'detection sensors' into the computer to interpret the data and look for 'unusual' objects entering the blade area and then activate the blade drop. How scaleable all that is into contractor saw I'm not so sure. The Sawstop by contrast is a very simple hardware based conductivity circuit.

There are two differences between the Felder and the Sawstop.

One is in the operation where Felder uses electro magnets (which are heavy but can be used repeatedly) to retract the mechanic to remove the blade from the user - while Sawstop uses pytorechnics (which are light but single-use) to destructively stop the blade and from this make its momentum rotate the mechanic out of the way.

The other is the sensitivity of the detection, both the system detect changes in electrical capacitance of the blade.
While the Sawstop needs contact with the user... the Felder is way more sensitive (it basically works like a Theremin) and from this is able to detect flesh way before it makes contact with the blade, it also is able to detect the speed of the approaching flesh.

The processing power needed in the felder system should be well within the capability of a 3€ microcontroller, the whole detection system should be doable (when leaving out the bling like the touch screen) for a BOM of

 

[HowardH]

I visited my local Felder showroom on Friday.  I was told at some point the technology will work it's way down to the Felder machines but probably not the Hammer line. 

 

[RussellS]

I visited my local Felder showroom on Friday.  I was told at some point the technology will work it's way down to the Felder machines but probably not the Hammer line.

I'd probably argue with the Felder showroom people about that statement.  And win.  Due to the cost and newness of the Felder safety system, it is being only offered on the industrial machines.  Multi million dollar companies spending millions on equipment each year and depreciating it over 20 years are not too concerned with a few thousand dollars.  For home owners buying woodworking equipment for a hobby, one thousand, ten thousand, twenty five thousand means a bit more.  But once the price comes down and the demand goes up, Felder will put the safety feature in their Hammer line too.  Assuming Hammer is the hobby homeowner tool.  Think about air conditioning for cars.  At first it was only available in the luxury models as an expensive option.  Then it got to more models as a luxury option.  Then it became a standard option on almost every car.  Then it became a standard feature that isn't even an option anymore.  You automatically get air conditioning just like you automatically get seatbelts and airbags.  Why?  Because almost no one would buy a car without air conditioning today.  Maybe the Felder saw safety feature will get to that point someday.  It comes with the saw just like all saws have motors and fences and blades.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
but probably not the Hammer line.

at this early stage, no one outside the executive rank has any idea about how far Felder will take the technology down. The Felder showroom rep. has not ruled out anything if he is correctly quoted: "probably," not "definitely." It's like asking a SawStop rep. when the ICS was first released if there would be a jobsite version of SS.

 

[Gregor]

Price of the system can likely be massively reduced when it dosn't have to reset automatically (but instead being a manual thing that takes a minute or two).