Festool Class:The Farm Table Workshop

[jar45]

Does anyone wish to comment on the contents and tools used when taking The Farm Table Workshop Class?  This is considered an intermediate class.  I do own some of the Festools mentioned in the class description but not all.  Would this be a good class to take after the Festool System Essentials or after Cabinets, Doors, etc.

Thanks
John 

 

[mouppe]

I attended a workshop day when one of the Festool trainers built this. I was a little underwhelmed to be honest, but that's mainly because I own a lot of Festools and am comfortable using them.

If you know next to nothing about Festool tools or building a table then perhaps you could get something out of it- and most of the people in the room fell into this category and seemed to enjoy the day- but the project itself is very basic. I saw it built during a one day class so I don't know what they do differently to stretch it to two days and call it an intermediate project?

 

[Sparktrician]

I attended this class in Lebanon last year.  It would be well to consider that much of the prep work was done by the instructor before the students got there, like securing the legs from an outside source and selecting wood that was ready for final cutting.  The class ran two days, and I, for one, got quite a bit out of it, even though I am decently equipped with Festool goodies.  I don't feel that this class depends on any other class, so go ahead and take it.  You can't lose. 

 

[gdjenkins10]

I took it as my 1st Festool class in Lebanon as well. I had recently converted my shop over to Festool so I got a lot out of the class. Depending on your glue up,  might get a lot of practice with their sanders. I enjoy learning different approaches.

 

[ccarrolladams]

Does anyone wish to comment on the contents and tools used when taking The Farm Table Workshop Class?  This is considered an intermediate class.  I do own some of the Festools mentioned in the class description but not all.  Would this be a good class to take after the Festool System Essentials or after Cabinets, Doors, etc.

Thanks
John

It is no secret that I have been selling custom cabinets I have made since 1946. Currently I own a very large custom cabinet shop. Since 2006 I have been using Festools a lot. My attitude is that despite a lot of experience I can always learn from being trained by people who know what they are doing.

Festools are excellent tools, but to get the most out of them it is very important to be trained or coached by specialists in Festools able to coach each of us to become "at one" with our Festools. I attended the first End User Class which opened the then new Festool Training Center in Henderson, NV in November 2010. Steve Bace is the Senior Trainer and lives in Henderson. In 2010 there were still 8 trainees per class. We were not crowded because that is a large training room, but Festool flew in Brian "The Sedge" Sedgeley from Indiana as the co-trainer. It was marvelous to benefit from both trainers during Cabinet Construction for 2 days and Advanced Router for another 2 days.

I do not build counter tops and stopped doing so 50+ years ago when Formica dropped out of fashion for high end cabinets. I had opened my new large shop in July 2010 featuring 2 big CNC routers. During the Cabinet class I learned that Steve Bace had created a training and certification program for the Solid Surface Fabricators Association. While I did not plan to start fabricating counter tops, a solid surface shop just down the street was interested in renting time on my CNC equipment. Besides I felt the more I knew about solid surface the better I can serve my clients.

Festool offer that class in February 2011, just as Granat and the RO90 were about to reach the USA. What Steve taught me was that Granat and the RO90 are marvelous. A couple of hours after we started sawing and routing solid surface I knew there was no way I could deal with the odor in my plant. That insight justified the moderate cost of the training.

Subsequently I have taken all of the other End User classes, some such as Cabinets and Doors more than once. I have attended three One-Day Road Schools featuring the Farm Table. I have not managed to find a class that fit my schedule.

My suggestion is that to get all that you are paying for when you buy Festools you need quality coaching. I encourage people to participate in End User classes. The difference between those and the Road Schools is that at the Training Centers you are using the tools with Steve, The Sedge or someone equally qualified right there to ensure you learn to operate the tools safely and efficiently in ways that work for your body and physique.

 

[sancho57]

Ive taken a few of the end user classes. I have not taken the farm table class. I can tell you that I have been wood working for 20 years and been using festools for about 5-6 years. I now have a full festool only shop. Each class I have taken I have learned many things. There is so much info being thrown at you that its hard to comprehend and remember it all.
It has allowed me to be able to build almost anything with festools.

Steve B starts each class with his 50% lecture . That lecture is that the average tool user only uses approx 50% of a tools potential.
One thing Ive learned is Steve is right.

Another thing you must be ready for is to spend a lot of money, each class Ive taken I went out and bought some more tools. Even after I swore to Steve I didnt need that domino, I went out and bought one afterwards...

 

[Carl Prentiss]

Does anyone wish to comment on the contents and tools used when taking The Farm Table Workshop Class?  This is considered an intermediate class.  I do own some of the Festools mentioned in the class description but not all.  Would this be a good class to take after the Festool System Essentials or after Cabinets, Doors, etc.

Thanks
John

It is no secret that I have been selling custom cabinets I have made since 1946. Currently I own a very large custom cabinet shop. Since 2006 I have been using Festools a lot. My attitude is that despite a lot of experience I can always learn from being trained by people who know what they are doing.

Festools are excellent tools, but to get the most out of them it is very important to be trained or coached by specialists in Festools able to coach each of us to become "at one" with our Festools. I attended the first End User Class which opened the then new Festool Training Center in Henderson, NV in November 2010. Steve Bace is the Senior Trainer and lives in Henderson. In 2010 there were still 8 trainees per class. We were not crowded because that is a large training room, but Festool flew in Brian "The Sedge" Sedgeley from Indiana as the co-trainer. It was marvelous to benefit from both trainers during Cabinet Construction for 2 days and Advanced Router for another 2 days.

I do not build counter tops and stopped doing so 50+ years ago when Formica dropped out of fashion for high end cabinets. I had opened my new large shop in July 2010 featuring 2 big CNC routers. During the Cabinet class I learned that Steve Bace had created a training and certification program for the Solid Surface Fabricators Association. While I did not plan to start fabricating counter tops, a solid surface shop just down the street was interested in renting time on my CNC equipment. Besides I felt the more I knew about solid surface the better I can serve my clients.

Festool offer that class in February 2011, just as Granat and the RO90 were about to reach the USA. What Steve taught me was that Granat and the RO90 are marvelous. A couple of hours after we started sawing and routing solid surface I knew there was no way I could deal with the odor in my plant. That insight justified the moderate cost of the training.

Subsequently I have taken all of the other End User classes, some such as Cabinets and Doors more than once. I have attended three One-Day Road Schools featuring the Farm Table. I have not managed to find a class that fit my schedule.

My suggestion is that to get all that you are paying for when you buy Festools you need quality coaching. I encourage people to participate in End User classes. The difference between those and the Road Schools is that at the Training Centers you are using the tools with Steve, The Sedge or someone equally qualified right there to ensure you learn to operate the tools safely and efficiently in ways that work for your body and physique.

WARNING: Way off topic
[off topic]
ccarrolladams,
  Is there a possibility of seeing photos of your cabinet shop? What I would most like to see is how the materials flow from one process to the next. I would also like to see your cutting table for use with the plunge saws. I was intrigued when you described it, (long rails stored on a shelf below, if I remember correctly). Also, photos of the big machinery are always of interest just for the cool factor. As a relatively new woodworker with an affinity for history, I'm impressed with the number of years you've been at it.

 

[tjbnwi]

I've taken various training classes. One was an introduction class, the other a cabinet class. I was then well beyond comfortable with the Festool system. Use the tools in ways the trainers could not teach in class. I still learned somethings.

You will get out of the classes what your willing to put into it. It's not necessarily about the tools.

I'm still trying to get into a solid surface class. I think this is why they won't schedule one.

Tom

 

[ccarrolladams]

Tom, Steve Bace conducts a marvelous Solid Surface Fabrication class, of course concentrating on using Festools. But he was teaching such classes for the Solid Surface Fabricators Association for many years before he went to work for Festool.

My suggestion would be to contact several of the leading solid surface products manufacturers. People from those firms can guide you to such training. Unless the situation has changed since 2011, in the USA you virtually need to have received formal solid surface training and then pass an examination to be certified as a fabricator. That is necessary to buy the material wholesale. Of course that could well not be the case outside the USA and some manufacturers might sell material to those not certified.

What I can share is that every aspect of handling and fabricating solid surface is vital to making a satisfactory product.

As for photos of my own custom cabinet shop, my policy has always been to not take such pictures. My large tables with 20mm holes on 96mm centers range from 4 x 8' to 4 x 18' It is the long one we use for cutting sheet material with guide rails and TS55s. The 18' is a result on using a 4 x 10' sheet and a 4 x 8' sheet. I wanted it long enough the shelf would hold a 5000mm rail.

Construction is fairly simple. Under the table the frame is welded from square and rectangular steel tubing. The long table has 6 casters, the center two rigid and the four corners swivel, with locks. The  several 4 x 10' and 4 x 8' tables use similar frames, but with just 4 corner swivel casters. The top plywood over hangs the frame by 9 inches all the way around. Between the top of the steel frame and the bottom of the working surface there are 19mm x 50mm strips of poplar on edge. The bottom of the strips are screwed to the steel. The idea is the top of the cutting surface is 69mm above the steel frame to keep the blade clear of the steel. The sacrificial surface is held to the poplar strips with hot melt glue. The same approach is taken with the other sanding, LR32 drilling and sanding tables. We make the tops on our CNC routers when we have spare time. Most of the 19mm plywood we buy is 4 x 10' The shelves along the long sides are supported by brackets welded to the frame. The shelves are made from 19mm plywood.

The non-cutting tables also have shelves along the long sides, but those are wider and do not reach the ends of the table. They are for temporary storage of tools and supplies. The long table has end shelves for the saws.

As for photos of the major tools, Stiles and Felder have useful websites with photos. Same for Baker who make our horizontal re-saw bandsaw and Alexander Dodds who makes our dovetail CNC drawer machine, as well as our drawer assembly machine. Both of our vacuum lifts are made by Schmalz. Our 3 wheel 4,000 pound capacity electric forklift is made by Toyota. Our 8,000 pound capacity long-reach propane fork lift is mage by Grade-All.

The newer to us Eastern Building is used for storage of raw lumber and plywood, as well as finished cabinets waiting to be shipped. Directly west across the parking lot is our original Western Workshop Building. Using the forklifts we only move to the workshop the material we will need that day. Both buildings are maintained as conditioned space at similar temperature and humidity. The large CNC machines and the pressure beam saw are close to the big entry door.

 

[tjbnwi]

My goal was some basic experience in the handling and processing then take it from there.

I can by SS wholesale.

Tom

 

[ccarrolladams]

That being the case, why not ask your solid surface wholesaler about training classes.

You will be amazed the number of tricks needed to successfully fabricate solid surface projects and the variety of clamps needed.

 

[tjbnwi]

Working on that also. Just figured a trip to Henderson would be a lot of fun.

Tom

 

[sancho57]

I'd take every class I can. remember you have the expert there. Any questions about any festool you have will be answered. They have every tool available in NA so even if its one youre thinking about getting , will be there for you to fondle then go out and buy.

Put it this way, Ive been to 3 classes so far, Ive ben considering going from here in the UK to the USA to take a class, plan my vacation around one.
The essentials class is awesome, Thats the one I want to take again if I had a choice

 

[Sparktrician]

Working on that also. Just figured a trip to Henderson would be a lot of fun.

Tom

You'll love the class, not to mention seeing all the personally-owned, non-Festool tools that Steve has and uses in the class. 

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

No picture policy? You building bombs? 

Goofy.

 

[sancho57]

No picture policy? You building bombs? 

Goofy.

??????