Festool Domino DF700 with Seneca's Small Mortise Kit

[guydot]

I have used a friend's DF700 for a while and debated whether to purchase the DF700 or DF500. I have never used the 500 (but I would LOVE to have a lighter tool.) I ended up buying the Seneca Woodworking Small Mortise Kit for the Festool Domino XL DF700 (http://www.senecawoodworking.com/pro...omino-xl-df700) thinking that I would get the best of both worlds.

When using the kit I ran into the following issue: the Seneca domi-shim is mounted on the Domino fence and used to raise the center of the bit to allow centering on 1/2" - 1" stock. It also elevates the transparent "sight gauge" from the surface of the wood and makes it unusable. The result is that it is very hard to align the Domino and the line marked on the surface of the wood. There is a notch on the lip of the fence body - but it is very hard to use. I thought that the whole point of the kit is that you'd be able to keep the shim on the fence all the time...

Seneca replied to my email and suggested extending the line from the sight glass down the inside of the shim using a fine tipped paint pen or white/sliver sharpie marker or using cross stops. Anybody else having the same issue?

(The 500 seems more attractive to me now, I will probably order it to try.)

Thanks!

 

[bobfog]

I agree with your assessment. The adapters are a compromise at best. Sure you can get the smaller cutters to work with the XL using these adapters. But it's a bit like trying to use an axe to sharpen the end of a pencil, awkward and cumbersome.

 

[guydot]

The quality of the Seneca product is superb. I would order it if I already had the 700. I also think that there could be a better design for the domishim.

 

[jbasen]

I have used a friend's DF700 for a while and debated whether to purchase the DF700 or DF500. I have never used the 500 (but I would LOVE to have a lighter tool.) I ended up buying the Seneca Woodworking Small Mortise Kit for the Festool Domino XL DF700 (http://www.senecawoodworking.com/pro...omino-xl-df700) thinking that I would get the best of both worlds.

When using the kit I ran into the following issue: the Seneca domi-shim is mounted on the Domino fence and used to raise the center of the bit to allow centering on 1/2" - 1" stock. It also elevates the transparent "sight gauge" from the surface of the wood and makes it unusable. The result is that it is very hard to align the Domino and the line marked on the surface of the wood. There is a notch on the lip of the fence body - but it is very hard to use. I thought that the whole point of the kit is that you'd be able to keep the shim on the fence all the time...

Seneca replied to my email and suggested extending the line from the sight glass down the inside of the shim using a fine tipped paint pen or white/sliver sharpie marker or using cross stops. Anybody else having the same issue?

(The 500 seems more attractive to me now, I will probably order it to try.)

Thanks!

I have the 700 with the seneca bit adapter and shims.  You are correct in that the shims do make it harder to use the sight gauge.  For me the savings of having a single Domino that does everything vs. 2 very expensive machines is worth it.  That being said I'm just a hobbyist so I'm not using the Domino every day for production work.  If I were it would be different. 

I may have to try designing a new shim on my 3D printer that has a built in LED.  I guess that goes on the list of projects. 

 

[cperren]

I agree above with jbasen.  The DF700 has work well for me as a hobbyists when using the Seneca adapter and bit extensions for small dominos. Although there are improvements that could make the Seneca adapter even better with respect to the sight glass AND center line triangles ...     

 

[Birdhunter]

I splurged and bought both the 500 (first purchase) and the 700 (purchased several years later).

I use the 500 90% of the time. I use the 700 for large projects like outdoor benches. I think my usage profile is not uncommon.

If your projects are normally small to medium sized, I suggest buying the 500 with the cutter/tenon assortment. When you have a project that needs really big tenons, buy the 700 with both the cutter/tenon assortments.

I also suggest you buy an extra 4mm and 5mm cutter. These will break more frequently than the big cutters. Being in the middle of a project and breaking a cutter without a spare is a bummer.

 

[Nat X]

Made my own out of polycarbonate. Didn't take very long and cost much less.

Love the cutter adaptor, but the Domishims are kind of a bad joke in my eyes.

 

[guydot]

Made my own out of polycarbonate. Didn't take very long and cost much less.

Love the cutter adaptor, but the Domishims are kind of a bad joke in my eyes.

Love it!!! What's the thickness of the poly? Is it the same as the Domishim and would it work with the imperial gauge? I need to see if I can source the material....

 

[guydot]

I use the 500 90% of the time. I use the 700 for large projects like outdoor benches. I think my usage profile is not uncommon.

If your projects are normally small to medium sized, I suggest buying the 500 with the cutter/tenon assortment. When you have a project that needs really big tenons, buy the 700 with both the cutter/tenon assortments.

I will order the 500 soon and test. Luckily, I'd still have access to a friend's 700 (and will happily share my 500 with him

 

[Nat X]

Made my own out of polycarbonate. Didn't take very long and cost much less.

Love the cutter adaptor, but the Domishims are kind of a bad joke in my eyes.

Love it!!! What's the thickness of the poly? Is it the same as the Domishim and would it work with the imperial gauge? I need to see if I can source the material....

I think it's 1/2". I pulled it out of a scrap bin at a local shop for about $5. I always set my fence height visually after marking where I want the center to fall so I can't speak to how difficult the math will be in calculating any offsets, but I'd still wager it's less troublesome than the parallax inherent to the Domishims.

I mostly cut smaller mortises as well, so I naturally bought the 500 first and found I absolutely hated it. The switch was a nightmare that (very painfully) pinched my thumb constantly and the thing was so light that it'd dance all over the place from its own vibration when you flipped it on. I'm a tiny person with tiny hands but the 700 still feels more "right" to me in every way imaginable.

 

[guydot]

I mostly cut smaller mortises as well, so I naturally bought the 500 first and found I absolutely hated it. The switch was a nightmare that (very painfully) pinched my thumb constantly and the thing was so light that it'd dance all over the place from its own vibration when you flipped it on. I'm a tiny person with tiny hands but the 700 still feels more "right" to me in every way imaginable.
[/quote]

Interesting. I will report back when I reach a final decision. It's either the 500 or a solution to the shim.

 

[Kev]

I splurged and bought both the 500 (first purchase) and the 700 (purchased several years later).

I use the 500 90% of the time. I use the 700 for large projects like outdoor benches. I think my usage profile is not uncommon.

If your projects are normally small to medium sized, I suggest buying the 500 with the cutter/tenon assortment. When you have a project that needs really big tenons, buy the 700 with both the cutter/tenon assortments.

I also suggest you buy an extra 4mm and 5mm cutter. These will break more frequently than the big cutters. Being in the middle of a project and breaking a cutter without a spare is a bummer.

+1 on everything you said.

I've also got the Seneca adaptor, but I've never found myself attempting to use it.

 

[Birdhunter]

I have the Seneca adaptor as well. I thought I needed to have both the 500 and 700 mounted with the same bit. Never happened.  I frequently am using both Dominos at the same time. Never thought that would happen. It's like having the T18 mounted with a drill bit and the TSX mounted with a driver bit. Wish I had two vac's.

 

[ttf5003]

It's funny I was logging into FOG this morning to tell a similar story and ask some questions.

I got the 500 a few months ago, used it for a few projects and loved it out of the box (didn't own any Seneca products). I want to make some interior doors so I picked up a 700, Seneca adapter, imperial kit with the domishim. I planed on selling the 500.

I needed to make a quick temporary frame out of relatively narrow (2 1/2") wide stock. I only had 6 joints total to make (4 corners and a cross brace) so I was doing my best to pay attention to what I was doing. Unfortunately some of the cuts came out a little thicker then then thickness of the domino. Probably due to me rocking it while it was going in or out. I know, poor technique on my part but I don't experience the same problem when using the 500.  Like the OP I also had trouble lining up the lines because of the thickness of the domishim.

Next came the cross brace, like a divider or fixed shelf in a cabinet. With the 500 I would just lay it down, clamp it, and use it as the fence for the cut. That's not an option with the 700 because of the thicker offset of the base. I ended up still using the piece as the fence but calculating the offset and sliding it over which was time consuming and not as accurate.

Then I realized with the domi shim attached to the fence I couldn't plunge cut anyway in the middle of the work piece without taking it off. Is there a technique I'm missing as far as using the 700 with the fence in the upright position, or do I really have to find a 3mm wrench and mess with the 4 screws to take the shim off every time?

Not sure what I'm going to do, I'm a hobbyist and don't think I have the luxury of keep both machines. I thought from the mostly glowing reviews of the Seneca products on here that it would be great but I'm not so convinced now.

Thanks for any tips.

 

[guydot]

With the 500 I would just lay it down, clamp it, and use it as the fence for the cut. That's not an option with the 700 because of the thicker offset of the base.

...

Is there a technique I'm missing as far as using the 700 with the fence in the upright position, or do I really have to find a 3mm wrench and mess with the 4 screws to take the shim off every time?

Not sure what I'm going to do, I'm a hobbyist and don't think I have the luxury of keep both machines. I thought from the mostly glowing reviews of the Seneca products on here that it would be great but I'm not so convinced now.

If I understand you correctly: you should use the shim to plunge a mortise in center of the "shelf." Then, draw a center line for the shelf on the "base" and use the center markers on the 700 to plunge. Look at this video, approx. minute 6:00

 

[Birdhunter]

Strongly suggest keeping both Dominos. If you sell the 500 and eventually buy another, you end up paying a big penalty. There is a sweet spot for each Domino machine with a small area of overlap. Having both greatly expands your range of Domino usage.

I find the Seneca shims for the 500 and the 700 to be excellent products. Both have strengths and weaknesses.

 

[ttf5003]

Thanks for the video link. That's basically what I was trying to do but it wasn't working well because of the narrow stock. I could have easily overcome that problem with scrap wood on either side.

Unfortunately having to take off the domi-shim everytime you want to put a domino in the middle of the board is going to be pretty annoying.

 

[guydot]

Ryan from Seneca emailed me that they are looking into a few options to resolve the issue. What a great company! Cannot wait to see what they come up with!

 

[Stowe Boy]

Resurrecting this thread from 2016.

I pretty much decided on the 500. As most of my work would be with smaller dimensional wood. The trigger location and functionality does not bother me as others have mentioned.

Then the domino connectors came out. Oh the things I could do with those. Well at least in my head.  But if I educated myself correctly, they only work with the 700.

And I mostly work with smaller dimensional wood. While aftermarket products exist to make the 700 compatible with smaller cutters, would I struggle with the nuances of using those.

I have had a chance to use both for different projects with friends.  Don't have a strong preference based on those limited uses.

Thoughts?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[grbmds]

In my opinion, the 500 and 700 are meant for very different scale projects. While Seneca makes great products and, from feedback on the FOG, the 500 bit adapter for the 700 works, I feel the 700 is just an inappropriate machine for smaller projects cumbersome for some of the small projects I've made with the Domino. The 500 is my all-time favorite tool. For me, it's one of those tools that changed the way I work and design. I don't think you will ever regret buying the 500 except for how much it costs.