Festool drill bits

There's a serious danger for Festool if they endorse the quality of Chinese manufacture ... I hope they can hear what they're not saying (if you know what I mean) by outsourcing to China in a way that is ultimately visible and obvious to their customers !
 
Guys, it's three products out of thousands. It's not like we've wholesale outsourced manufacturing to China.  [blink]
 
What a fuss over nothing. The manufacturer of the product determines the quality. So you can get high quality stuff made in China, or rubbish made in the USA depending on the manufacturers' specifications. What is generally true is that for a similar level of quality, the Chinese-made product costs less because labour costs are lower.

I'll make my choice on a product-by-product basis, not a marketing campaign designed to trash a competitor country's output irrespective of brand or quality.
 
Richard Leon said:
What a fuss over nothing. The manufacturer of the product determines the quality. So you can get high quality stuff made in China, or rubbish made in the USA depending on the manufacturers' specifications. What is generally true is that for a similar level of quality, the Chinese-made product costs less because labour costs are lower.

I'll make my choice on a product-by-product basis, not a marketing campaign designed to trash a competitor country's output irrespective of brand or quality.

It's not a fuss over nothing for those (like me) who are concerned with the political aspects (and I know that we are not supposed to be discussing those in this forum).
 
I choose what I use based on a number of factors.  Having worked for years with companies that outsource to China my main gripe is the attitude of the Chinese workers.  They are not interested in exceptionalism.  They are lazy and not trustworthy, always looking for ways to "screw the man.". I've got stories after stories of how product formulations were changed, subsandard components substituted for specified components, etc.

I enjoy and appreciate the quality of Festools the same way I enjoy the quality and precision of my Leica products (been their customer since 1955).  But when Leica started producing their products in Portugal, I stopped buying their second tier product line.  Is there a difference? Yes.

I hope to never see that change with Festool but I'm sure there will be other companies that are willing to create products that are demanded by discriminating consumers willing to pay the premium.
 
Just a thought: if everyone stops buying everything from China because the workers there aren't paid as well, then they probably won't get paid at all.

Without getting into the "right" or "wrong" of purchasing products, rather than limiting this to geographical borders (continuing to blame China), consider that similar working conditions have been reported in...

USA:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/09/opinion/forced-labor-on-american-shores.html
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/slave-labour-that-shames-america-765881.html
    http://www.workers.org/2011/us/pentagon_0609/

Canada: http://www.traffickingproject.org/2010/10/canadas-first-case-of-forced-labor-if.html

UK (accused): http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/sweatshop-christmas-amazon-uk-accused-49300373/

 
I don't care where Festool's drill bits come from, they are of exceptional quality. That's from someone who used them instead of someone who looked at a label.

I don't think $14 for 10 bits is expensive either. It's the normal rate for quality. I bought 8 small bits the other day of another brand for €8.80.

I do agree with Bill Chang. It's considered a national sport in China to "Screw the man". A lot of Chinese products are substandard, but they can produce quality too if they want. Only thing is, as a client that wants quality from them, you've got to keep your eyes WIDE open. I suspect Festool has that area covered. Btw, wasn't it Famag who made Festool's drill bits? Thought I read that somewhere once. Not sure anymore. But if it's Famag, that's as high a quality as you can get.

It's no use complaining that Chinese workers get paid very badly. It's true, but if they don't get this pay, what do you think they'll get? Even less. That's how the situation is right now. Nothing short of a revolution is gonna change that, and I don't see a revolution happening. Only time will make the difference. A long time, measured in decades at least.

I remember from history class that somewhere in the 1800's the American navy sailed to China and threatened to open fire on Chinese cities if the emperor didn't open the trade barriers for them. Because the Chinese didn't want anything to do with the west. Lol, well, that attitude changed dramatically. To some people's regret.
   
 
Alex,
I don't think it is (still) FAMAG that is producing the Festool drills. They are made by Zobo in Switzerland, but I do agree that the quality of both vendors is extremly good. The gap between FAMAG and Festool drills is very narrow, close to zero.

Ingo
 
The thing is, as I see it, made in Germany, not a problem, but made in China and what comes to mind ?? quality or cheap made stuff ??

They (the Chinese) have a very long way to go to make peoples perceptions change.

How would you, the Festool customer/user feel about buying a (say) TS55 that's been made in China for the same price as a German made one ? if say a workmate asked how much you paid for that (Chinese made) tool and you trying to justify the cost over a DeWalt/Makita model ?

How would that make you feel ?

If Festool go down the made in China route, I'll be buying Mafell in future.

 
There are many layers to this onion and I think there is room for discussion, at least on this forum where these things can be civil. I move back and forth over this issue all the time. On the one hand, it will be better for us all when China reaches some form of economic, environmental and social parity with the developed world. Their prices will be higher but NA and EU will also be more competitive, AND life would be better for the Chinese population in general. In Japan it took two generations following WW2 and China may be on that same trajectory. They accomplished some of it in one generation after the very destructive Cultural Revolution but truly run the risk of major upheavals when the inevitable pressure builds to dismantle the plutocracy that masquerades as the Communist Party. That old saw about absolute power corrupting absolutely.

As mentioned, the Chinese have no monopoly on injustice, and positive social and economic developments won't take place without global trade. From my personal perspective, I believe it is important for those corporations that do manufacture in China be aware that their customers expect them to monitor not only for quality but for abuses, human and environmental, and thereby contribute to positive change. (Are you reading this, Festool Germany?) We may want to benefit financially from those lower costs but we should also agitate against the super-exploitation that drives some corporations to China in the first place. This is one of several reasons why I personally will not step foot inside a WalMart, no matter how attractive their pricing may seem.
 
It raises questions that we won't find the answers to -- How did Festool choose (only) those three products of thousands and no others?  [popcorn] 
 
I don't know.
There was Stanley #4 plane. It's a simple thing with just a dozen parts. Design is 100+ years old. Once again it's VERY simple. But if I take Lie-Nielsen's copy and Far East produced copy I feel BIG difference. Is it just my imagination? But LN has soul, another copy does not. I've bought used Sweet Heart modern copy of Stanley's block plane. Yes, it's genuine Stanley, but made recently in China.  Oh, boy. It immediately went to eBay.  Why? Because aluminum thread will die soon.
If I know that Laguna and Grizzly saw were made on the same factory, why should I pay premium for Laguna? If mini lathe under Grizzly name costs $900 and the same lathe in different color cost $450 at Harbor Freight what will I buy?

 
I believe it was Japan that had the isolationist policy and was opened up by Admiral Perry and the black ships.
Back to the drill bits, I think everyone, especially in the UK and Ireland should buy Famag drills and Forstner bits.  [wink]
 
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