Festool drills / drivers, Why?

[FestitaMakool]

Yes, they are aftermarket accessories, there’s a long hex 1/4” bit holder, essentially the same bit holder you got with the kit, only longer. (2 differs sizes in fact, in addition to the standard length you’ve got)
The locking bit holder is the same as WERA’s: Search for BHS 60.

 

[m8]

I own a Dewalt Impact and Hammer Drill along with the Milwaukee Installation Driver (Festool CXS copy) and I don't enjoy using any of them.  Unfortunately most drill drivers are designed by marketing departments for YouTube videos because usually they all have a ton of power but are too powerful for most of my situations. 

I purchased the Milwaukee Installation Driver instead of the CXS because of limited platform of the batteries but after using the Milwaukee version I'm seriously considering buying the CXS.

When my Delwalts finally let out that last puff of smoke I will probably replace them with their respective Festool.

I do wish Festool would open up their Centrotec accessories along with updating the CXS to their 18 volt platform.

 

[Imemiter]

Are there any tips/sets you recommend I pickup for it?

I'd still pimp the Snappy Centrotec sets. Since getting a CSX, the Jacobs Chuck has become this strange unwieldy kludge.  [laughing]

 

[Bugsysiegals]

I’ve three sized Vix and plenty of drill bits but would need to swap to the drill chuck ... is the advantage of Centrotec drill bits that you don’t need to carry the chuck adapter or also something else?

 

[six-point socket II]

Quick change is the biggest advantage, second comes weight and compactness. Using Centrotec can, depending on accessory, make the difference in small spots, speaking of overall length drill + drill bit.

That said, I think it's crucial to have the keyless chuck as well. So you don't have to put specialized drill bits in the 1/4" bit holder for drilling.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Coen]

The compactness thing doesn't really apply to the CXS. That thing is huge in comparison to other 12V drills.

[attachimg=1]

https://youtu.be/XmYbYxEyA3E?t=580

 

[six-point socket II]

Please read my post correctly/ in the right context. We are talking about the keyless chuck vs. Centrotec chuck. In some instances using Centrotec is more compact than chucking a drill bit inside the keyless chuck.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[Coen]

Please read my post correctly/ in the right context. We are talking about the keyless chuck vs. Centrotec chuck. In some instances using Centrotec is more compact than chucking a drill bit inside the keyless chuck.

Kind regards,
Oliver

Even in that context a Bosch GSR 12v with chuck will be more compact than the CXS with Centrotec chuck.

The body of the CXS is somewhat thinner though, that gives an advantage in some cases.

But the GSR bit storage is non-existent by default and the add-on one is garbage compared to Festool.

It's still a shame they didn't make an excenter chuck for the CXS.

 

[six-point socket II]

It's not about a different make/model. It's about CXS + keyless chuck or CXS + Centrotec chuck. Please read the question that was asked in #63 .

I give up/ surrender now.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[semenza]

I’ve three sized Vix and plenty of drill bits but would need to swap to the drill chuck ... is the advantage of Centrotec drill bits that you don’t need to carry the chuck adapter or also something else?

Overall -- it is a built in compact quick change. Shorter, lighter, no spinning Jacobs, less wobble.

I think Centrotec makes a bigger difference on the T/C 18 (and previous 12v, 15v) than on the CXS. Because it makes a bigger difference on a full size , full power drill, than on the CXS when compared to other brands. I don't think the CXS is the best case drill to look at when asking "why Festool drills".

There is a lot of personal preference, type of work, situational usage involved with choosing a drill. As far as Centrotec goes --- some people love it, some people are indifferent, some people hate it.

Snappy makes three sizes of self centering (Vix) bits that fit the Centrotec chuck.

Seth

 

[semenza]

One thing, that is often overlooked,  when comparing the Centrotec chuck to Jacobs is that you don't accidentally end up with
the spinning chuck rubbing against another surface next to the drill. Granted this is a perfect application for the eccentric chuck (love that thing) but the eccentric doesn't always  work out depending on the drill bit and situation ( EX- using the 90 degree. Which is much better with Centrotec than Jacobs).

Seth

 

[FestitaMakool]

One thing, that is often overlooked,  when comparing the Centrotec chuck to Jacobs is that you don't accidentally end up with
the spinning chuck rubbing against another surface next to the drill. Granted this is a perfect application for the eccentric chuck (love that thing) but the eccentric doesn't always  work out depending on the drill bit and situation ( EX- using the 90 degree. Which is much better with Centrotec than Jacobs).

Seth

The non spinning and rubbing chuck is a very good point to Centrotec’s favour. And the fact that it makes the larger 18V drills much lighter and more compact. That said, I often use my other compact drill with a Jacobs chuck rather than putting that on the CXS, which does it rather long and front heavy. I would off course not be without the Jacobs chuck on the CXS, but I tend to bring the other and use both to each task.

 

[slavi.yordanov]

The problem with Centrotec in my opinion is that it’s supposed to help with bit wobble, but I really don’t think the difference with a standard 1/4 hex is that big.

Also all the Centrotec stuff is way overpriced. Some will say everything Festool is overpriced, but considering the three year wear and tear warranty, systainer with every tool, and made in Germany (mostly), the price makes sense.

The BHS60 adapter for example is $30, which is made by Wera. It’s double the price of the standard 1/4 hex bit holder by Wera, and their stuff is not cheap either.

So I think a fair comparison is between Centrotec and standard 1/4 hex drive, when comparing different manufacturers.

The Bosch posted above actually works with Cetrotec bits (the stubby drill bits) and they are actually locked. Also the Festool hand driver by Wiha works on both standard 1/4 and centrotec bits, and there is zero play, I don’t know why that can’t be incorporated into a drill/impact.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mino]

So I think a fair comparison is between Centrotec and standard 1/4 hex drive, when comparing different manufacturers.

It is not. A comparison (at the time Centrotec came out) did not exist. That is why Festool came up with the system to begin with IMO.

Today, you can approximate the quick-change-chuck part.
You can also (partially) approximate the locking-bitholder-directly-on-shaft part by getting some of the other vendors hex drive locking mini-chucks.

But you still cannot approximate both in one tool and the simplicity it gives.

Even if we ignore the Centrotec bits entirely, the quick-chuck + BHS combo are STILL way better solution than anything else on the market.

Do not like Centrotec bit. Do not use them. No one is forcing you.
It is a capability you get in addition to all the other great features which also other makers have.

No reason to be jealous of Festool users then. Right ?
[big grin]

 

[JeremyH.]

CXS thinner > stout Bosch.

I can put a 90 adapter that I don't have to hold from turning on the CXS that gets it into VERY short spaces. But really the thinness helps a lot in many situations.

It is the best one to look at for why Festool. But the "system" approach to all the new stuff is probably the biggest reason why to look at other stuff.

Anyways continue to over-analyze and talk about stuff like how bots write reviews that are plastered all over the web for most products  [tongue]

 

[AlexThePalex]

The problem with Centrotec in my opinion is that it’s supposed to help with bit wobble, but I really don’t think the difference with a standard 1/4 hex is that big.

Also all the Centrotec stuff is way overpriced. Some will say everything Festool is overpriced, but considering the three year wear and tear warranty, systainer with every tool, and made in Germany (mostly), the price makes sense.

I hear people repeating about the bit wobble, but I never have heard Festool say anything about that. I wonder where the idea comes from?

And yes, everything Festool is way overpriced.

 

[slavi.yordanov]

I hear people repeating about the bit wobble, but I never have heard Festool say anything about that. I wonder where the idea comes from?

And yes, everything Festool is way overpriced.

From this video, for me specifically.

When stuff is made in Germany (Europe), people complain it’s expensive. When it’s cheap, they complain it’s made in China.

So I did some testing. The brad point stubby bit has these additional notches in the shaft, which allows it be locked inside my Bosch. The bit holder doesn’t have these notches for some reason, but when inserted has noticeably less play than a standard hex bit holder. I would try if the stubby bits lock in the TID or my Milwaukee impacts. I guess the wobble has more to with the ball detent on standard 1/4 hex bits than anything else really.

 

[AlexThePalex]

From video, for me specifically.

Peter Parfitt is great guy and long time member here, but he is not Festool.

A system where you insert bits that are not clamped down will always have some wobble.

 

[mino]

I hear people repeating about the bit wobble, but I never have heard Festool say anything about that. I wonder where the idea comes from?

Probably anecdotal experience. It _is_ possible to make hex components to the same tolerance as the Cetrotec is being made to from the get go.

You buy Centrotec, you get guaranteed "wobbliness" which is generally on the better/best side of the scale. But that is more of a side-effect IMO.

Festool did not use /actually they did, you can fit hex bits directly into the shaft/ native hex simply because they needed additional STRENGTH so it can be used to carry the full Jacobs chucks etc. So they took the torque from the hex but the guiding aspect is using the MUCH STRONGER outer cylinder which allows for more consistent precision but mainly more strength.

The Centrotec system bits compatible with the special chuck is only part of the system. The primary purpose is the quick-change chucks capability which cannot be achieved but a simple hex internal bit itself.
You need to compare that with other systems using balls for torque etc. which are generally inferior for torque transfer but was patent-free till late.

 

[Coen]

CXS thinner > stout Bosch.

I can put a 90 adapter that I don't have to hold from turning on the CXS that gets it into VERY short spaces. But really the thinness helps a lot in many situations.

See the same Youtube video I posted from 18:00 on. The CXS 90 degree adapter isn't that special. The thinness is nice, but same can be achieved with longer bit with other machines, while the shorter body can never be achieved by Festool. So you are going to use the 90 degree adapter more.

One thing, that is often overlooked,  when comparing the Centrotec chuck to Jacobs is that you don't accidentally end up with
the spinning chuck rubbing against another surface next to the drill. Granted this is a perfect application for the eccentric chuck (love that thing) but the eccentric doesn't always  work out depending on the drill bit and situation ( EX- using the 90 degree. Which is much better with Centrotec than Jacobs).

Seth

Competitors now also have products that have 90 degree adapters without using any Jacob's chuck.

The Festool system remains the easiest I have to say. But last year, when I bought new drills, I looked at a Festool T18 Set... and for less money I got a Bosch GSR 18v-60, a GSR 12v-35 and a GSR 12v-35 FC with all the chucks, total 6 batteries. If I have a drill / drive job I now have a machine for each, so no exchanging heads at all.