Festool HSS spirals or carbide?

[Warrior]

I am making some Sipo panels with routed grooves 12mm wide by 8mm deep spaced 32mm apart.  Should I get the festool hss spiral grooving bits or the festool carbide bits for this task?

I will be routing 132 grooves nearly 1.7m long each. Almost 225 meters!

Thanks,
Eiji

 

[nickao]

I love the spiral bits, but that is a lot of routing. I think I would opt for the carbide. I may have both bits(not is the festool version). I will give a try in Sipo and see which work better and let you know.

Nickao

 

[Markus K.]

For this work I would use a carbide Router Bit. HSS makes finer cuts in softwood, that's the only reason to buy those. Sure, you can use HSS-Bits, but I guarantee you, you'll need more than one Bit for this work!

 

[Ned]

Eiji--

There are two separate questions here:

• Edge style--straight or "spiral"
• Edge material--High Speed Steel or  carbide (HW)

I know nothing of Sipo, but assuming it is a hard hardwood, carbide seems like the best edge material, and would certainly be longer lasting and more economical.

Festool does not offer a 12mm spiral carbide bit, only HSS.  Unless the work demands a spiral bit, let's move on.

Festool offers two 12mm straight carbide bits--the 490 972 and the Duro-Form 490 080.  If it is essential that your cuts be an unvarying 12mm, then the 490 972 is a single-use cutter--it cannot be resharpened.  If you're going to use it enough, the Duro-Form is much cheaper to run:

Use	Single-use	Duro-Form
1	31.50	109.00
2	31.50	0	2nd edge of cutter supplied with bit.
3	31.50	50.50	Package of 4 reversible inserts, 1st edge.
4	31.50	0	2nd edge.
5	31.50	0	3rd edge.
6	31.50	0	4th edge.  Duro-Form's cheaper from here on.
7	31.50	0	5th edge.
8	31.50	0	6th edge.
9	31.50	0	7th edge.
10	31.50	0	8th edge.
Total	315.00	159.50
Per edge	31.50	15.95

In addition to economy, using the Duro-Form makes it much more likely that you'll have a fresh edge on hand, so you won't be as tempted to try to get just one more meter out of a dull edge.

I have the 10mm Duro-Form straight bit.  No complaints aside from the entry cost. 

Ned

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Isn't SIPO stated to be a type if mahogany?  I have not seen any of the actual dominos of SIPO being marketed by Festool.  Does anyone know if they are as hard (thumbnail indentation test) as the originals of European beech which are quite hard?  In my lumber stock, I have small amounts of several types of mahogany; these boards vary widely in hardness and density.  If SIPO has any silica or appreciable amounts of other identified mineral deposits within its pores, I would definitely choose carbide.  If the width of the grooves has to be as close to identical as possible, I would choose carbide with replaceable inserts.  But if neither of these applied, and I had some 12mm bits in my collection, I'd use them up first. 

I also recall Jerry Work having posted several times that his Festool carbide bits (with carbide cutting edges bonded to the steel backing) have proven extremely durable, and that he has not had to sharpen or replace any of them despite using them frequently in making custom furniture of various hardwoods as his full time profession.

Dave R.

 

[nickao]

Isn't SIPO stated to be a type if mahogany?  I have not seen any of the actual dominos of SIPO being marketed by Festool.  Does anyone know if they are as hard (thumbnail indentation test) as the originals of European beech which are quite hard?  In my lumber stock, I have small amounts of several types of mahogany; these boards vary widely in hardness and density.  If SIPO has any silica or appreciable amounts of other identified mineral deposits within its pores, I would definitely choose carbide.  If the width of the grooves has to be as close to identical as possible, I would choose carbide with replaceable inserts.  But if neither of these applied, and I had some 12mm bits in my collection, I'd use them up first. 

I also recall Jerry Work having posted several times that his Festool carbide bits (with carbide cutting edges bonded to the steel backing) have proven extremely durable, and that he has not had to sharpen or replace any of them despite using them frequently in making custom furniture of various hardwoods as his full time profession.

Dave R.

Sipo is NOT what we think of as Mahogany, its  a misnomer. It is harder than true Mahogany. You can not press your fingernail into it, you can with true mahogany. At least not the 50 bd ft I have in the shop anyway.

According to my book it is in the same family as true genuine Mahogany. It looks a lot closer to Sapele than What Americans might think of as Mahogany. Actually if you press really hard you can thumbnail the wood more than I originally thought before I went to double check.

There are a number of  other woods that have mahogany in their names, but that generally have nothing to do with mahogany. At least Sipo is  in the same family, though it has an African origin. A few of the more widely known such names are:

(1) "Philippine mahogany": This is a blanket name used for dozens of species (primarily Shoria species such as meranti), none of which are related to the mahogany family
(2) "santos mahogany": This is Myroxylong balsamum of the family Leguminosae (the legume family), totally unrelated to mahogany.
(3) "royal mahogany": This is is a flooring industry marketing term for a wood that has absolutely nothing to do with mahogany