Festool in the Commercial realm

[WildCard]

  I worked for a high end home builder as a trim carpenter. We did a few McMansions a year. Unfortunately we got slow and I was laid off. So instead of waiting for them to call me back I took a Job as lead carpenter for a commercial company.  I've subbed for them in the past.

  Festool is absolutely great in the residential building world. Highly respected and it they just fit in. For some reason it is frowned upon in the commercial industry. Not by anyone important just people who are jealous. I just find it strange that when I show up with a couple stacks all organized and efficient I am mocked. Yet if I had the dewalt t-stak I wouldn't be. Festools high prices really make people jealous and they search hard to find flaws. So I let them and it always come down to price.

  Anyone else run into this? I hate to say it but are commercial carpenters all idiots or what?!

 

[Sparktrician]

It may be time for you to educate the heathens. 

[big grin]

 

[Rob Z]

The old saying from centuries ago still applies:  "The dogs bark, but the caravan moves along".

 

[Distinctive Interiors]

I had a very similar situation to this early this past week.

I had about 5 hours work to do on a Site on Monday, then back on Tuesday to finish off, about 3 hours work. My van was blocked in by one of the Site carpenters, so I had to ask him to move it to allow me to get my van out. As he was coming down the stairs, he was moaning about me only doing 1/2 days and "probably still earning more than him, as that's how you can afford all them Festool's that you've just loaded in your van"........I didn't say a word!!!!! Just got in my van & left the site. He had a DeWalt rail hanging out the back of his van that looked as though it had been used as a Crow Bar!!!!!  [eek]

Tim.

 

[jlyons]

I have had a little bit of a similar situation in residential work.  I should say I had that experience till they tried them.Our cabinet maker was in love with the sander immediately after urning it on, he hasn't even used the ts55 yet just seen me use it and was blown away.  The guys that have used the ts55 withe the vac just can't get over how quiet and good the vac is and love the shape and the saw well we all know how it changes everything.  I just have the OF1010, I was notching some posts to hold a beam, they were kind of snickering to themselves that it was kinda cute, they came back when the notches were done and wondering how i got them so deep. 

 

[justinh]

I think it is more about perceived value than jealousy.  Cost is always a factor. If the job can be done just as accurately and efficiently with a tool other than Festool that costs less one would be foolish not to consider that option.  If by using a Festool tool you increase efficiency and accuracy then you would be foolish to allow the cost of the tool keep you from buying it.  It would be more expensive not to own it.

I use tools from multiple manufacturers.  To me they are just tools and a means to do my job and put money in my pocket.  There are tools that Festool makes that I don't see value in when compared to others.  There are others that I would hate to try to do my job without.

I have almost all of my tools in Systainers for the sake of organization and efficiency.  I have yet to be made fun of. 

 

[WildCard]

I've been labeled as the guy with the $1000 skilsaw. What do you even say to that? What it comes down to is how you use your tools and what you do with them determines their necessary worth.

If your using a skilsaw to cut sheathing, fine I get it. You don't need the best saw it even a good one. When your making cabinets like I do then you appreciate and see the need for a perfect straight square cut that is ready for glue without and planing or surface prep.

The people who don't appreciate festool don't appreciate craftsmanship like we do.

 

[WildCard]

I think it is more about perceived value than jealousy.  Cost is always a factor. If the job can be done just as accurately and efficiently with a tool other than Festool that costs less one would be foolish not to consider that option.  If by using a Festool tool you increase efficiency and accuracy then you would be foolish to allow the cost of the tool keep you from buying it.  It would be more expensive not to own it.

I use tools from multiple manufacturers.  To me they are just tools and a means to do my job and put money in my pocket.  There are tools that Festool makes that I don't see value in when compared to others.  There are others that I would hate to try to do my job without.

I have almost all of my tools in Systainers for the sake of organization and efficiency.  I have yet to be made fun of.

I agree 100%.  I am the same way. I have a few actual festool tools and everything else is jn systainers. It's the best more organized system I've come up with yet. I even bought a makita systainer on eBay (cheap too!) for my 2 impacts, 1 drill, 8 batteries and 1 charger. It's awesome! I think I paid $45. It's the same size as a sys-3.

 

[Sparky]

Yeah the other day I was using my ts 75 installing a kitchen. The 4 finish carpenters hadn't really ever seen festool as they thought my systainer was a fax machine. After they watched me use it they came to the conclusion the conclusion it was only for people that couldn't cut straight and dust collection doesn't matter as these guys didn't even have garage cans and left there crap in a pile and didn't sweep there work areas. So here I am having my kapex hooked up 2 my ct 36 breathing nice clean air when they have to come set up 3 saws in my kitchen area.

 

[tiralie]

The old saying from centuries ago still applies:  "The dogs bark, but the caravan moves along".

Good one!
I doubt many are making fun of Tommy Silva of this Old House etc. because he uses Festool.
Tim

 

[jaymon5]

I have worked in both residential and commercial (rough framing to finish).  For me, it is normal to have a friendly banter on the job site.  I can remember being made fun of for being the new guy, every time i got a new tool, or the way in which I did things.  I was one of the first guys to swing a Stilletto Titanium hammer on the job site, and boy did i get hassled.  At the time, it was normal to swing 28 to 32oz hammer.  Instead of thinking of the greatness of having a lighter hammer that had the same impact of heavier ones, i got hassled for having the "expensive hammer".  One day, i had stuck going on a parts pick up run, i returned to a hammer that was painted gold and was placed in a display case.  3 months later, everyone on the crew had them (not the gold one).

Regarding using Festool on the job site, the hassle factor is definitely there.  I still get people asking me why i have all the holes in my workbenches (MFT) [tongue] and how nice it is to be able to spend that kind of money on tools.

In the end, I walk away with the smile on my face knowing that I achieved a higher level of accuracy and efficiency on the job site.

Some people are going to understand the reasons for using high quality tools, some people are not.  To each his own.
 

 

 

[richy3333]

Growing up, my mother refused to buy me a book because of the knowledge that could be learned and my dad always said to invest in quality tools because they would last you a lifetime. He built formula 1 race cars.

I've had sarcastic comments but when you're running a business you need to be able to rely on your tools.

 

[Davej]

On a job a while ago and I had a 5' stack of systainers in the corner out of the way and I was asked if it was some sort of filing case/ system  [eek] . Most recently I was on a job were the H.S.E came round and bollocked everyone for lack of dust control , apart from myself as I had my ts55r hooked up to my midi. I had the last laugh . and as the saying goes ' he who laughs last laughs longest.
Dave

 

[Terry S]

OK, Picture this... You're the general contractor, property owner, foreman.....  You have several crews working the job site at the same time.  One of the tradesman has these newer different type green tools and is knowledgeable and articulate about why he has them, e.g. precision, dust control (work safety) etc...  You can see his work area and tools are well organized and he efficiently/neatly accomplishes the task at hand.

Who are you going to remember the next time you go to your contact list to get a precision job done?

IMHO it is not just about the tools but the quality of the person who is willing to search out and invest in those tools and the underlying knowledge about how to exploit that superior tool or system.  Put it all together and you have competency and efficiency which is job security.  [big grin]

 

[WildCard]

OK, Picture this... You're the general contractor, property owner, foreman.....  You have several crews working the job site at the same time.  One of the tradesman has these newer different type green tools and is knowledgeable and articulate about why he has them, e.g. precision, dust control (work safety) etc...  You can see his work area and tools are well organized and he efficiently/neatly accomplishes the task at hand.

Who are you going to remember the next time you go to your contact list to get a precision job done?

IMHO it is not just about the tools but the quality of the person who is willing to search out and invest in those tools and the underlying knowledge about how to exploit that superior tool or system.  Put it all together and you have competency and efficiency which is job security.  [big grin]

Well put!

 

[WildCard]

  I was one of the first guys to swing a Stilletto Titanium hammer on the job site, and boy did i get hassled.  At the time, it was normal to swing 28 to 32oz hammer.  Instead of thinking of the greatness of having a lighter hammer that had the same impact of heavier ones, i got hassled for having the "expensive hammer".  One day, i had stuck going on a parts pick up run, i returned to a hammer that was painted gold and was placed in a display case. 

That's funny but obnoxious

 

[Sparktrician]

Sometimes I go into a new customer's home and get this question from the woman - "You ARE coming back to clean when you're done, aren't you?"  My response is, "No; it will not get dirty, and what little dust escapes this dust collector will be gone before I leave."  I get the incredulous look.  A few hours later, I see a happy homeowner who says, "You weren't kidding!"  That alone covers the cost of the DE for me, and often gets me referrals and calls to do more work. 

 

[Sparktrician]

  I was one of the first guys to swing a Stilletto Titanium hammer on the job site, and boy did i get hassled.  At the time, it was normal to swing 28 to 32oz hammer.  Instead of thinking of the greatness of having a lighter hammer that had the same impact of heavier ones, i got hassled for having the "expensive hammer".  One day, i had stuck going on a parts pick up run, i returned to a hammer that was painted gold and was placed in a display case. 

That's funny but obnoxious

Better gold  than pink!!!

[poke]

 

[rst]

It is about using the right tool for the job no matter who makes it.  I don't use my 8 1/4" worm saw or 10" Milwaukee to cut counter-tops and I don't use my TS75  for framing.  I use a Milwaukee sawzall and band mill because the do things my Festools won't but I have a Carvex jigsaw...gotta admit I'd rather have a Mafell and accessories but $1100 I haven't been able to justify.

 

[jaymon5]

  I was one of the first guys to swing a Stilletto Titanium hammer on the job site, and boy did i get hassled.  At the time, it was normal to swing 28 to 32oz hammer.  Instead of thinking of the greatness of having a lighter hammer that had the same impact of heavier ones, i got hassled for having the "expensive hammer".  One day, i had stuck going on a parts pick up run, i returned to a hammer that was painted gold and was placed in a display case. 

That's funny but obnoxious

yep, I worked with a very creative crew.  As much as I tried, I could never really get all that gold color out of the casting.  I never let my tools out of my sight after that.