Festool is (partially) moving to imperial in North America

[semenza]

 

  I remember when I was getting ready to buy an ATF55 thinking about the fact that it had a metric scale. And actually considering it as part of the decision. After the fact it turned out to be no big deal. Once I moved on to the TS55 (not REQ) I did use an add on imperial sticker. Again no big deal but just more convenient for me. On my TSC55 I would prefer to have an imperial scale, but not a deal breaker. The thing I actually don't like on the TSC55 is the dual on rail off rail scale. I was always have to think about which one I should be using (haven't used it very many times yet though).

    I don't think I have ever used the scale on the 1400 router. I use gauge blocks to set depths. So it could probably not have any scale at all.

    I would prefer an imperial scale on the HL850. That is something that I find to be a real nuisance and generally something that I need to be exact. So converting 1/16" to whatever in mm is a place to introduce error.

    I think there are several metric or imperial usage methods at work in NA. Very user dependent. But in light of my first line, "I remember when I was getting ready to buy an ATF55 thinking about the fact that it had a metric scale", it probably makes sense for Festool to switch to imperial in NA. Simply so that buyers are not put off by thinking that the metric scales will be a big problem. The degree of whether or not the scale is a problem for the user will vary. But after someone starts using the tools, I think the scale problem starts to diminish in ones thinking. At least that was the case for me.

  Though I would prefer to work and have everything in metric I am just waaay to tuned in to thinking in imperial.

Seth

 

[locaholic35]

Really hope Festool reconsiders after seeing the backlash in this forum.  If not, my future purchases will likely be Mafell as I am not interested in going back to imperial after seeing the benefits of metric. 

 

[cred]

I have to agree that it is incredibly disappointing to hear that the metric counterparts will no longer be sold in NA.  Some (many?) of us appreciate the fact that Festool tools are metric, and our workflows depend on that.  Sadly, if Festool is going to move to solely imperial standards, then going forward I'll no longer be buying Festool.
While adding support for imperial measurements does make some business sense and may increase the customer, removing metric support alienates the existing base. This is a significant gamble on the part of Festool, who may lose existing customers and fail to attract significant numbers of new ones.

 

[jumpinthefire]

Canada is metric. All stength testing and certification of lumber fabricated and sold in Canada is done using metric units. Try to find a 3/4" thick of plywood made in Canada. Impossible. They are fabricated using metric sizes.

I remember when I did my thesis for my Structural Engineering degree, 25+ years ago, that all lumber, trusses, gusset plates etc, were metric and all findings were published in metric.

Cheers
JC

I started building my dream house 6 months ago. Clearly, I'm no expert. But I did go to a engineering school too.

My House plans dimensions where imperial, center to center measures in inches

Concrete thickness in inches (but strength in megapascals)

LVLs and I-Joist specifier sheets where in inches. Same with the I-joists web hole cutting instructions.

Plumbing: Imperial

Garage doors : imperial sizes, and so on.

Not once did I order something using the metric system, except for the concrete. The fact that lumber is cut using the metric system is irrelevant, simply because 19mm plywood is made to replace the real 3/4 inch plywood and nobody cares for the .05 mm difference.(except engineers )

A lot of lumber sold in Canada is still named after the old imperial sizes. Contractors and framers still refer to these sizes & lumber yards employees are familliar with them. So no, Canada is not metric at 100% yet.

 

[rmwarren]

May have set a new FOG record 46 posts in ~2.5 hours. Or 150 minutes.

At least we are all on the same time scale. 8)

RMW

 

[mouppe]

I can't think of a situation when I look at the scale when using a saw, router or planer. With the router in particular, much more depends on the bit being used than anything else.

For the TS55, I just adjust the depth of the cut to the material.

Thankfully the domino is not included in this change. That really would be significant because the cutters are staying metric.

So for me this is all a storm in a teacup, even though it makes no sense to me why Festool would go down this road.

 

[TylerC]

A couple of things here:

1. While Festool is growing very rapidly in North America, our market share is still really small. That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Imperial is what is used by the vast majority of NA craftsmen. Metric has always been a barrier for people considering Festool. Converting our North American tools to North American standards isn't the craziest thing.

2. Providing two versions of the same tools simply doesn't make sense. It would be far too expensive and complicated to simultaneously provide both tools. Other power tool manufacturers don't offer both metric and imperial versions of their tools either. It's easy to say, "Just make both." It's much harder to actually pull off in a financially feasible way.

3. While the baseless speculation about our financial solvency is always entertaining, it's still baseless speculation.

4. It's interesting that many of the harshest responses have come from people outside of NA. Obviously, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but it will be interesting to see how the majority of craftsmen in imperial-dominant countries respond. The non-FOG response to this so far as been largely positive.

 

[SethThompson]

One tool that I think will be way less fun to use is the domino. When its in metric I hardly have to think about it because everything is is tens.

 

[semenza]

One tool that I think will be way less fun to use is the domino. When its in metric I hardly have to think about it because everything is is tens.

The Domino is not on the list of tools being changed.

Seth

 

[JCLP]

Canada is metric. All stength testing and certification of lumber fabricated and sold in Canada is done using metric units. Try to find a 3/4" thick of plywood made in Canada. Impossible. They are fabricated using metric sizes.

I remember when I did my thesis for my Structural Engineering degree, 25+ years ago, that all lumber, trusses, gusset plates etc, were metric and all findings were published in metric.

Cheers
JC

I started building my dream house 6 months ago. Clearly, I'm no expert. But I did go to a engineering school too.

My House plans dimensions where imperial, center to center measures in inches

Concrete thickness in inches (but strength in megapascals)

LVLs and I-Joist specifier sheets where in inches. Same with the I-joists web hole cutting instructions.

Plumbing: Imperial

Garage doors : imperial sizes, and so on.

Not once did I order something using the metric system, except for the concrete. The fact that lumber is cut using the metric system is irrelevant, simply because 19mm plywood is made to replace the real 3/4 inch plywood and nobody cares for the .05 mm difference.(except engineers )

A lot of lumber sold in Canada is still named after the old imperial sizes. Contractors and framers still refer to these sizes & lumber yards employees are familliar with them. So no, Canada is not metric at 100% yet.

Yes you are correct. In the construction industry old names are still being used as they are easier to say and remember. It's like asking for a Kleenex. Most people say Kleenex, which is a name brand, but we should say Facial Tissue.
For the LVL and IjJoist spec sheets, you are correct as well. If the parent company is american they will publish their specs in imperial but before selling anything up here they must adhere to all National, Provincial and Local codes and must get CSA approval, which are all metric.
If you take a look at Nordic.ca which makes LVL's you can choose if you want American or Canadian. The Canadian specs are all metric as per the National building code.
Canada is 100% metric. People in the construction industry are still using imperial names, but I can guarantee you, that eventhough we call it a 2x4 it's a 38x89.

 

[johninthecamper]

A couple of things here:

1. While Festool is growing very rapidly in North America, our market share is still really small. That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Imperial is what is used by the vast majority of NA craftsmen. Metric has always been a barrier for people considering Festool. Converting our North American tools to North American standards isn't the craziest thing.

2. Providing two versions of the same tools simply doesn't make sense. It would be far too expensive and complicated to simultaneously provide both tools. Other power tool manufacturers don't offer both metric and imperial versions of their tools either. It's easy to say, "Just make both." It's much harder to actually pull off in a financially feasible way.

3. While the baseless speculation about our financial solvency is always entertaining, it's still baseless speculation.

4. It's interesting that many of the harshest responses have come from people outside of NA. Obviously, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but it will be interesting to see how the majority of craftsmen in imperial-dominant countries respond. The non-FOG response to this so far as been largely positive.

nonfog response has been largely positive
Of course it has, you show metric to average American, what do you expect
People on here use them,the people who responded positively probly aren't. loss of system is not worth it to me.as much as I don't like to be converted,I would still buy metric

 

[fidelfs]

What will happen to the consumables for existent customers?

5mm bits for 32mm cabinet?
The 35mm bore bit for the hinge?
dominos (not the machine)?

I need to know so I can buy now, or move to another brand.

 

[tiralie]

Who cares its just marks on a stick, never use them away. Nothing on the actual tool will change just the scale, like most conversions of this type. Its just marketing to a perceived group.

As usual John [member=4907]kcufstoidi[/member] , I completely agree and a very reasoned response to this topic.
I am switching between metric and imperial all day, I am sorry I wasted Tyler's time.
I am sure one of the great third party Festool accessory manufacturing companies will sell me a nice metric sticker to replace the imperial one that will come on any new tools I buy.
I need to get a life.
Tim

 

[Stoli]

Surely your marketing folks have not concluded that there is 0.00245% increase in sales potential by catering to the US Imperial prejudice?

RMW

No, I think the conclusion was a 0.00254% increase

 

[TylerC]

What will happen to the consumables for existent customers?

5mm bits for 32mm cabinet?
The 35mm bore bit for the hinge?
dominos (not the machine)?

I need to know so I can buy now, or move to another brand.

None of this changes. Cutting scales are the only things affected.

 

[Wooden Skye]

A simple sticker provided with the new tool could make everyone happy.

Eric
[/quote]

This is the best option in my opinion, plus it gives the consumer the choice.  In theory switching to imperial makes sense, but having some tools and accessories remain metric and some imperial makes it even more confusing. 

 

[RVHernandez]

I haven't read all the posts here, so sorry if any of these points have been made...

Sorry, but I am not on the "happy" bandwagon regarding Festool's announcement to ONLY offer their tools in the US as imperial only! This is just going to make it frustrating to add a new "imperial" tool for those of us that have a large investment in their current tools. Imagine having two routers with metric and a new one in imperial. Using an imperial TS55 with metric parallel guides...

If this was a marketing/sales problem for Festool in the US, they should have "added" imperial while retaining metric. Or. like the TS55 REBQ, offer a second scale as a sticker. Sadly, I don't think Festool thought this out!

One last thought - people who buy Festool tools know exactly what they are getting and "buy" into a system. Their tools are different - quality, engineered, precise - and German. Most of us are smart and sophisticated enough to use their tools - if they are trying to "bring" more customers into the fold, using imperial isn't the barrier for new sales, it's cost. But that's a whole other topic...

 

[RVHernandez]

Surely your marketing folks have not concluded that there is 0.00245% increase in sales potential by catering to the US Imperial prejudice?

Considering that imperial dominates North America, this move should make Festool more accessible to a much wider group of craftsmen.

Price is more a consideration, but that's another discussion...

 

[JCLP]

I must have way too much time on my hands. Been doing some research and found the following.

"The Metric Conversion Act of 1975, as amended by the Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act of 1988, establishes the modern metric system (System International or SI) as the preferred system of measurement in the United States. It requires that, to the extent feasible, the metric system be used in all federal procurement, grants, and business-related activities by September 30, 1992."

 

[Kev]

A couple of things here:

1. While Festool is growing very rapidly in North America, our market share is still really small. That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Imperial is what is used by the vast majority of NA craftsmen. Metric has always been a barrier for people considering Festool. Converting our North American tools to North American standards isn't the craziest thing.

2. Providing two versions of the same tools simply doesn't make sense. It would be far too expensive and complicated to simultaneously provide both tools. Other power tool manufacturers don't offer both metric and imperial versions of their tools either. It's easy to say, "Just make both." It's much harder to actually pull off in a financially feasible way.

3. While the baseless speculation about our financial solvency is always entertaining, it's still baseless speculation.

4. It's interesting that many of the harshest responses have come from people outside of NA. Obviously, everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but it will be interesting to see how the majority of craftsmen in imperial-dominant countries respond. The non-FOG response to this so far as been largely positive.

So .. what are these "imperial-dominant" countries - outside of North America?