Festool Kapex chop saw or another??

[jackandhenry]

Hello
      I have many festool products and pretty much love and use all of them very frequently. My boss thinks I'm crazy for spending the money but I justify the cost with a well made product that saves me time and money. I finish projects faster and everytiing links together as a system.

Anyways I currently have a dewalt tiny chop saw I use small trim stock with. I also use the companies larger Bosch slider that works great. It's not the best for dust extraction but most of the time we are cutting outside.

My question is.... I am looking to purchase a larger chop saw for my own side business which is carpentry and cabinet work with some furniture. Is the kapex worth the $1400?? It's a steep price for a chop saw. Almost triple of the dewalt large 12" slider or the makita. These saws are all great too. I am just wondering all your experience with the kapex and worth the $1400?? It's not only a hobby but my job.

Please let me know your thoughts and experience with the kapex. Thanks

J

 

[peter halle]

You are asking a common question - although it gets asked in various ways.

In my mind there isn't a perfect answer because each person considering the purchase has different perimeters.  I waited until 2010 to buy mine and will never look back.  Others, just like you, and me for quite some time, question the cost versus performance.

I like the lighter weight, the integrated hand holds (might be a stupid like for some but carrying a sliding miter saw of some brands causes bruises), the lasers when the ambient light level allows, the large miter scale allowing setting to the 1/4 degree, the dust extraction (when I use it inside), and the unbelievable bevel control.

I use it to cut anything that it can cut.  It travels daily.  It hasn't complained yet, but when cutting totally soaked pressure treated material it does mumble a bit.

Here is a thread I think you might find interesting:  http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/kapex-precision-of-cut-and-accuracy-vs/60/

Peter

 

[h.gil]

I have a Bosch 5412 that I bought about 7 years ago. At the time I was doing large crown and wood flooring, so it was good for treads too. Now I could do with an 8.5" for the portability.

Dust Extraction of the era wasn't as big a concern I guess, even though the saw has a dust port to attach a vacuum hose, it doesn't have a dust shroud so I have to improvise and even then it only gets about 80%.

Yes, that is part of a boot.

The blades are more expensive being 12", and unless you shop bargain a quality blade can be just as expensive than a Festool blade, at the moment I alternate between an FS Tool TCG and Freud LU3A which I love.

I have to admit: Winning the January Giveaway would have been sweet.

 

[Holzhacker]

Field work, YES, spend the $2K and get the full set up; nothing better and easier than rolling a full Kapex with stand and wings in and out of a jobsite
Shop work, NO, buy a Bosch and spend the other money on a vac and sanders

 

[JCLP]

I spent many months thinking on wether or not to buy a Kapex and finally bought one just before the price went up. There is only one word to describe this saw, WOW.I took it out of the box and everything was 90 degrees and no calibration needed, even the laser. I spent the day cutting 42 MDF shelves in a closed garage and guess what, no dust mask needed and no clean up. It was expensive, $1752 with taxes, but I don't regret it and it's worth every penny. Buy one, you will not be disappointed. By the way, sold my Ridgid 12" sliding compound to a neighbour.

 

[NERemodeling]

$1400 sure is a lot of money but my vote goes for the Kapex.    

My last saw was the makita LS1016 10" 4 rail slider.    I wouldn't recommend that saw to my worst enemy.  It was constantly coming out of alignment, the fence casting  was so bad out of the box that I had to drill the bolt holes bigger just to square it.  the blade was not parallel to the rails which Caused burning etc. The 5 piece fence is junk and most frustrating, the bevel 0 degree  stop must have been made out of rubber because it was soft and impossible to easily return to 0 after a bevel cut

For me the makita was a complete waste of $500.   In my book that's worse than spending $1400 on an awesome saw.

I have been using my Kapex daily for about 6 months as a remodeling contractor and am 110% happy with my purchase.   The saw saw is consistently accurate, the miter detects are rock solid and the bevel function alone is worth $1400.

Not to mention the dust collection! I can now comfortably setup in a customers finished room without covering everything in sight with plastic. It doesn't get 100% of the dust but what it misses is a small amount of larger heavy shavings/chips that fall fight being the base of the saw.. nothing is floating all over the house!    The time savings of this alone will eventually pay for the saw.

John

 

[jackandhenry]

This is all very helpful!! Peter thanks for the link. I've used them all ranging from makita, rigid, dewalt, hitatchi and Bosch and also the kapex. I only used the kapex about 6/7 times in a shop with no dust extraction hooked up. My favorite so far is the dewalt but still no experience with the dust collection. I haven't been disappointed yet with a festool product but still need to be sure before I spend $1400. Hopefully I can bid it over a few jobs to afford one. I'm sure it's a great saw. Just lookin to ask you first.

J

 

[Neathawk Designs]

I'm wondering when I can justify a second Kapex! 

 

[Kev]

I'm always surprised at the angle of query when it comes to professionals considering Festool.

Let's leave aside health and professional appearance for a moment ...

The worth of a tool is in what it does for you over a given time - enabling your earnings. This also means that you need to assume that you have a consistent earning potential.

Regarding the KAPEX, assuming it does exactly the same job as "brand X", if it's dust collection ability alone only saved you 5 minutes a day, this would pay for the price premium of the KAPEX full setup in time saved in less than 2 years.

* This is based on a simple principle that if you earn $100,000 in a year, 5 minutes of every working day is worth about $1,000 over the year.

Obviously this is distorted if you do things like getting your apprentice to clean up and you pay them a very small fixed salary, etc. So it is important to consider relative cost and benefit.

For those that argue against premium power tools just because of their price, I'd remind them that handsaws and axes were used long before electricity was discovered.

 

[jackandhenry]

I'm always surprised at the angle of query when it comes to professionals considering Festool.

Let's leave aside health and professional appearance for a moment ...

The worth of a tool is in what it does for you over a given time - enabling your earnings. This also means that you need to assume that you have a consistent earning potential.

Regarding the KAPEX, assuming it does exactly the same job as "brand X", if it's dust collection ability alone only saved you 5 minutes a day, this would pay for the price premium of the KAPEX full setup in time saved in less than 2 years.

* This is based on a simple principle that if you earn $100,000 in a year, 5 minutes of every working day is worth about $1,000 over the year.

Obviously this is distorted if you do things like getting your apprentice to clean up and you pay them a very small fixed salary, etc. So it is important to consider relative cost and benefit.

For those that argue against premium power tools just because of their price, I'd remind them that handsaws and axes were used long before electricity was discovered.

      Very well said KEV. I've always analyzed my purchases for tools in this fashion. Over the course of time if any tool will save me time and money 99% of the time I will buy it. I can't tell you how many times the track saw has saved me hours if time. The sanders as well. That's one of the main reasons I buy festool products!  That and just we'll thought out machines. After all I'd rather be riding on the vintage motorcycles on a twisty country road!!  I do enjoy my line of work however.

These tools make my job easier and also cleaner at my sites. I'll prob end up eventually buying the kapex.

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

There's quite a few threads on FOG discussing the pros and cons of buying a Kapex. It's an excellent tool that's easy to calibrate, doesn't weigh much, has good dust collection, its customer service is superlative, has very little blade deflection, is very easy to use, is fairly quiet, has easy blade change, holds calibration well, is very well machined and will last a long time.

 

[jacko9]

OK, here's an unpopular opinion on this website, FineWoodWorking just did a comparison on chop saws and recommended the Bosch CM12 for $330 dollars.  Unless you "need" all of the features of the Kapex, save your money and buy the Bosch chop saw and a Festool Domino DF700 Joiner and you will be much happier.

Jack

 

[justinh]

If you feel that after looking honestly at the type of work you do (not that you think you may do at some point), the environments in which you typically work, and the way you work that the features of the Kapex will make you money above and beyond the cost of the tool then buy it.  If it doesn't meet those criteria then you are over spending as most professional grade miter can be tuned to cut accurately.

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

OK, here's an unpopular opinion on this website, FineWoodWorking just did a comparison on chop saws and recommended the Bosch CM12 for $330 dollars.  Unless you "need" all of the features of the Kapex, save your money and buy the Bosch chop saw and a Festool Domino DF700 Joiner and you will be much happier.

Jack

Jack, you always give pretty sound advice.  So, it always should be considered. If someone justs wants a shop chop saw and has a limited budget, then your advice in this instance, may once again be sound. But if someone wants the flexibility to go on-site with a miter saw, then I think that because of the portability factor alone, the Kapex would still get the call.

 

[jacko9]

OK, here's an unpopular opinion on this website, FineWoodWorking just did a comparison on chop saws and recommended the Bosch CM12 for $330 dollars.  Unless you "need" all of the features of the Kapex, save your money and buy the Bosch chop saw and a Festool Domino DF700 Joiner and you will be much happier.

Jack

Jack, you always give pretty sound advice.  So, it always should be considered. If someone justs wants a shop chop saw and has a limited budget, then your advice in this instance, may once again be sound. But if someone wants the flexibility to go on-site with a miter saw, then I think that because of the portability factor alone, the Kapex would still get the call.

I agree, that's why I suggested that the OP think about his needs and buy accordingly.  I can't recommend a purchase without knowing what a person wants to do with the given tool.  I also want to add that I purchase for utility and buy the "best available" but, I don't have to worry about budget too much (unless my wife sees the bills) ;-)

Jack

 

[WoodWhisperer]

Sounds like u have made up your mind.  U will not be sorry.  I've been helping a fellow trim carpenter on a basement finish.  Let him use my TS 55 and Kapex to try to make a new festool nut.  Its harder than u would think to convert.  People have a really hard time getting pass the cost of premium tools.    He's one of the best carpenters I know.  He makes it look easy with non-festool tools.  The Kapex isn't going to do the work for u.  Its not going to make a piece of trim jump on the wall perfectly.  What it will do is make your work more enjoyable, the bevel scale and adjustment is out of this world.  The dust extraction is not perfect but is pretty good.  It is true and square right out of the box and stays that way. Overall it is the best miter saw u can buy.  So buy it as soon as u can!!  Or better yet, make your boss buy it for u [eek]

 

[dltflt]

Just buy one and you have 30 days to see if it fits your needs. If not return it.

 

[leakyroof]

OK, here's an unpopular opinion on this website, FineWoodWorking just did a comparison on chop saws and recommended the Bosch CM12 for $330 dollars.  Unless you "need" all of the features of the Kapex, save your money and buy the Bosch chop saw and a Festool Domino DF700 Joiner and you will be much happier.

Jack

I read that article . They thought sliders were not the money since the reviewers felt they were not accurate on cuts, esp. bevels. If they had reviewed sliders first and shown this, it would have been believable than the single picture provided.

 

[Sparky]

Yup bought mine just before price increase as well. My Dewalt that was just under 3 years needed some heavey warranty work and when they started humming about if it would be warranty that there parts had worn out I figured better bite the bullet. I install cabinets for a living and mostly get high end houses so it has been a really nice change for me with the kapex. We'll worth the money Forsure if it's how you make a living instead of a hobby

 

[Kev]

OK, here's an unpopular opinion on this website, FineWoodWorking just did a comparison on chop saws and recommended the Bosch CM12 for $330 dollars.  Unless you "need" all of the features of the Kapex, save your money and buy the Bosch chop saw and a Festool Domino DF700 Joiner and you will be much happier.

Jack

... and throw away the standard blade [wink]