I recently spent 3 days fixing a new roof for a friend. I drove in 1450 screws on one charge of my PDC 18/4 and it still has plenty of juice. It too has a battery gauge via the light. A brilliant piece of kit.
Peter
Peter
Festool please bring Real impact driver
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Kev
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Interesting views expressed from an NA perspective regarding relative merits of Festool drills and drivers.
I've been battling the little voice in my ear that's telling me to buy some METABO cordless gear and have access to cordless recipro, angle grinder, etc.
Having lived with Centrotec for a while and the various Festool chucks, Systainer storage, etc ... I'd find it hard to switch from Festool drills. Yes, I've got a PDC18-4 (in Oz) and the Ti15 meets my impact needs.
Festool doesn't make nail guns and my Senco's in it's own ugly box right now, I'm not mindlessly wed to Systainers (despite a popular view here!). If I did need a thumper of an impact driver before Festool brings something else to the market I don't know what I'd buy. Hilti seems to have dropped their quality and started sourcing everything from China - with no corresponding price drop! Hmmm .... probably METABO or Bosch.
Glad I'm in a position to wait and see in terms of my needs.
I've been battling the little voice in my ear that's telling me to buy some METABO cordless gear and have access to cordless recipro, angle grinder, etc.
Having lived with Centrotec for a while and the various Festool chucks, Systainer storage, etc ... I'd find it hard to switch from Festool drills. Yes, I've got a PDC18-4 (in Oz) and the Ti15 meets my impact needs.
Festool doesn't make nail guns and my Senco's in it's own ugly box right now, I'm not mindlessly wed to Systainers (despite a popular view here!). If I did need a thumper of an impact driver before Festool brings something else to the market I don't know what I'd buy. Hilti seems to have dropped their quality and started sourcing everything from China - with no corresponding price drop! Hmmm .... probably METABO or Bosch.
Glad I'm in a position to wait and see in terms of my needs.
NHSP759
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Where I live, Metabo is not a really option other than mail order. I don't know of any dealers in NH or in my immediate area (Maine or Massachusetts) but there could be a few around. I've got a friend in the UK that loves....LOVES....Metabo and Bosch cordless tools but outside of my L Boxxes, router bits, jig saw blades and my kickin' Bosch PB360 my my small shop is devoid of Bosch tools and I don't anything from Metabo.Kev said:
i went out to check all the usual suspects bosch, dewalt, milwauke and have to say i like milwauke the best all of those were brushless and latest tools. i currently own makita and while i like their tools the batteries sucks its almost like they are disposable i'v burned through probably 5 batteries in last 3years
Kev said:
Have to disagree with you re. Hilti - I recently sold all my Makita cordless tools and swapped over to Hilti. I got a four tool pack, with impacter, rotary hammer, 125mm grinder and circular saw, all 22v. The tools are great quality, and in use are excellent. Also come with impressive warranties and back up service. All the tools feel more 'heavy duty' than the Makita's they replaced. (not knocking Makita, just my opinion).
Also, the prices have definitely come down - I priced the impact driver set, about a year ago, and it has dropped about $180 in that time.
Their drill/drivers are also impressive, but I'll never replace my Festool drills - C15 and T15+3.
Lincoln.
Kev
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Linbro said:
I'll go back and have another peek ... there was a point where I was poised to buy 36V recipro and circular saw from Hilti. My "observations" are actually just collected opinions that I was trusting, so I'm happy to be wrong on that!
For anyone else inclined to look at Hilti (in Oz) I'm enclosing their latest cordless kit brochure.
Peter Parfitt said:
I was recently involved in a FOG discussion where this was covered...
http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/impact-drill-explanation/
Impact Drivers are the most clearly named... they use radial impacts to drive fasteners.
The rest are discussed fairly well here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammer_drill
Combi drill and percussion drills are the same thing:
"More advanced power units, usually labeled "rotary hammers", tend to be larger and provide a bigger impact force by utilizing a technology called the "electro-pneumatic hammering mechanism."
"Rotary hammers, also called "combi drills," are similar in that they also pound the drill bit in and out while it is spinning. "
Hammer drills, it says, are usually what you will find in cordless units and it also explains why the PDC doesn't have hammer-only:
"Lower power units are usually called "hammer drills," typically have a "cam-action" or "percussion" hammering mechanism, in which two sets of toothed gears mechanically interact with each other to hammer while rotating the drill bit. With "cam-action" drills, the chuck has a mechanism whereby the entire chuck and bit move forward and backwards on the axis of rotation, the motion is tied to the rotation of the chuck. This type of drill is often used with and without the hammer action but it is not possible to use the hammer action alone as it is the rotation over the "cams" which causes the hammer motion. These units are usually smaller and are commonly powered by cordless technology."
-Lee
wintu said:
This is a chicken or the egg argument.
Big honking batteries get in the way, puts extra strain on your wrists when working all day, and are unnecessary with advances in brushless technology. Capacity/longevity is never an issue if you have multiple batteries, most tool brands are offering dual capacity options as well for those who have extra large forearms. [tongue]
Some tools like the TS should have larger batteries, but the drills, Syslite and jigsaws are prime candidates for a lighter 12v system.
Milwaukee and Bosch have recognized the value in 12v tools, I believe Festool and others should as well (although Festool's current implementation has that integrated funky handle makes it not as applicable to other tools).
I more than agree with SAE, six or seven years ago, my daughter was lining in Portland,OR. When she came home to get her Jeep, I accompanied her back and built her an art work room. I had not brought any tools, the Jeep was packed to the ceiling and on top with her belongings. While shopping materials I saw the 12V Bosch and thought it would be a perfect size for her to use after I was finished and left. I was astounded at the power that drill, which I could carry in my pocket possessed. I did not rush out to buy one however when Milwaukee came out with their system approach I bought in and currently own eight of the various tools and use them in commercial service along with the 18v tools when I need more power.
Kev
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This talk of 12V's has been thinking about an awesome little 12v METABO recipro saw in was looking at last week ... can think of an immediate use, but really cool if it suited your needs. Most I've seen are heavy monsters - this one felt almost surgical !
http://www.metabo.com.au/Product-catalogue-handheld-powertools.24128+M5e4cee8f24c.0.html
http://www.metabo.com.au/Product-catalogue-handheld-powertools.24128+M5e4cee8f24c.0.html
shed9
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Kev said:
Most of the manufacturers do a small recipro saw, Bosch, Makita, Milwaukee, Dewalt, etc all do one in the 10.8 to 12v range. I've been looking recently myself and have to say the Metabo version looks half decent, even comes in a Systainer. They do some really good deals on combo packages with the recipro saws as well.
PreferrablyWood
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I've got the metabo 10v recipro, mostly used for pruning, and material breakdown. It's decent quality solid. Can't replace a larger recipro saw though. I've handled the 18V Metabo recipro it's slick but HEAVY so for small jobs the 10v would be preferred. Now I have one tool with the metabo 10v I am looking at getting the Metabo PowerMaxx BS Quick +SSD 10.8 Volt Combo Set 2.1 - 1 x 2.0ah 1 x 4.0ah Batteries 685053000 for 215 GBP at Tools for trade in the UK.. Noting that the included 4.0 aH 10.V battery will pair very well with my recipro saw which with it's supplied 1.5 ah batteries (2) doesn't hold out very long...
But still I'll get the PDC 18v 4.2 set XL to pair with my cordless Carvex...which hasn't really got much power with the 15v 3.0 ah battery I bought it with..Also after much reflection I'm settling on the PDC for it's extended gearing range which basically do just about everything I need to do. The smaller metabo impact will take care of most heavy driving tasks...
But still I'll get the PDC 18v 4.2 set XL to pair with my cordless Carvex...which hasn't really got much power with the 15v 3.0 ah battery I bought it with..Also after much reflection I'm settling on the PDC for it's extended gearing range which basically do just about everything I need to do. The smaller metabo impact will take care of most heavy driving tasks...
jcpsmallwoodworkershop
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i noticed that when it comes to drills and impact drivers, there are alot of
threads point out better competitors to north american drills and drivers
offered by festool, alternatives, this should upset festool marketing.
festool can offer niche products, and they do, and clean up they will.
but a basic line line drills and impact drivers festool is nowhere near
the top 10 manufacters. there is always the " hey the drill works great
for me doing xyz " and i am sure it does. especially if you already got
locked into the centroc system, but alas most of the addressable market
balk at cost and unique size and move on.
festool, has an wide open opportunity, you should bring your best
unit, sort of like the apple problem with a wider screen phone,
it started with "no you dont need one" to " there are too many
compromises to the competitors and its not best size" and now?
hey how about an iphone 6 plus, just larger than the samsung?
i can see festool selling the pdc and quaddrill, in north america
but in 2 more years? metabo or fein, or whatever will eat the market.
bosch has been innovating here, so has a few japanese manufacturers.
threads point out better competitors to north american drills and drivers
offered by festool, alternatives, this should upset festool marketing.
festool can offer niche products, and they do, and clean up they will.
but a basic line line drills and impact drivers festool is nowhere near
the top 10 manufacters. there is always the " hey the drill works great
for me doing xyz " and i am sure it does. especially if you already got
locked into the centroc system, but alas most of the addressable market
balk at cost and unique size and move on.
festool, has an wide open opportunity, you should bring your best
unit, sort of like the apple problem with a wider screen phone,
it started with "no you dont need one" to " there are too many
compromises to the competitors and its not best size" and now?
hey how about an iphone 6 plus, just larger than the samsung?
i can see festool selling the pdc and quaddrill, in north america
but in 2 more years? metabo or fein, or whatever will eat the market.
bosch has been innovating here, so has a few japanese manufacturers.
jcp2wood said:
yes PDC will be nice i was even thinking to have my friends in EU to send one to me but then again you pay big $$ for that unit and i would still have to buy another brand impact driver to have what i need. well nothing is perfect
also think with other manufacturers going fast into the 12V tools line up fetool is little behind . CXS in super nice but where is the other stuff?promhandicam
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wintu said:
+1
I've got a 14.4 Hilti impact which I use a lot, but having just spent a grand upgrading to a TSC 55 REB, a BHC 18 and a PDC18/4, the only thing I'm missing is an 18v impact to complete the line up.
promhandicam
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Kev said:
I've got the latest corded Carvex so can't really justify getting the cordless as I try to avoid using a jigsaw if at all possible.
SittingElf
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I've been sitting on the fence regarding the TI15. I have a feeling that Festool might be working on an 18V version to match their other tools. No evidence, but it seems like a no-brainer for them.
I currently own the CXS, T18+3, PDC 18/4, and the BHC 18. You would have to pry them from my cold, dead fingers to take them away from me! [tongue] Each one has its own specific strengths, and I wouldn't be without any of them.
That being said, I'm missing an impact, and waiting till the end of the year to see if Festool does indeed offer an 18V version, AINA or not. If they don't, then I might just go for the 15, but reluctantly.
I DO hope they bring the PDC and BHC to NA soon for you guys. They are both simply AWESOME! [thumbs up]
Cheers,
Frank (Currently in Nigeria where Festool doesn't exist!)
I currently own the CXS, T18+3, PDC 18/4, and the BHC 18. You would have to pry them from my cold, dead fingers to take them away from me! [tongue] Each one has its own specific strengths, and I wouldn't be without any of them.
That being said, I'm missing an impact, and waiting till the end of the year to see if Festool does indeed offer an 18V version, AINA or not. If they don't, then I might just go for the 15, but reluctantly.
I DO hope they bring the PDC and BHC to NA soon for you guys. They are both simply AWESOME! [thumbs up]
Cheers,
Frank (Currently in Nigeria where Festool doesn't exist!)
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