Festool price increase March 1st 2011

[Joe Smith]

I am glad that your business model is working for you and hope that it continues to do so.

That is not the case for a large portion of the country. 

 

[Jay Brewer]

There is no such thing as a 10 or 20 minute job.  By all three of the bids coming in around the same, should tell you they were not out of line.

The bottom line is it cost money to be in business, you cant look at what you can do it  yourself for compared to what it cost a company to do it, it is no where near the same. I can wash my own truck for a couple dollars, does that mean  I should expect the shop down the road with a building, employees, insurance to do it for the same?

 

[Kodi Crescent]

I have passed up numerous big projects because the home owner was going to call 5 different people to get prices (to keep the honest they say), big jobs take a lot of time to put together a # for.  I got wise and decided that some people were not worth wasting my time on.

And as one of those homeowners, we remember when you didn't bother to give us a quote.  We will not call you back to bid on subsequent jobs.

I had this issue with a large landscaping project.  Several companies came out to provide estimates.  I only received an estimate from a handful of them.  I'll remember which ones didn't want my business when I have other projects.

I can understand taking pride in your work.  Your statement about not wanting to provide a bid for a homeowner who gets multiple quotes really seems arrogant.  That probably isn't what you intended.  Some homeowners don't just shop on price.  Some shop on price, reputation, citizenship status, etc., and many are willing to pay more than the lowest bid if the contractor is reliable, a good communicator, and has a good track record.  To give up a potential opportunity because your bid may have some competition seems odd to me.  But, its your business, and I hope it all works for you.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I have passed up numerous big projects because the home owner was going to call 5 different people to get prices (to keep the honest they say), big jobs take a lot of time to put together a # for.  I got wise and decided that some people were not worth wasting my time on.

And as one of those homeowners, we remember when you didn't bother to give us a quote.  We will not call you back to bid on subsequent jobs.

I had this issue with a large landscaping project.  Several companies came out to provide estimates.  I only received an estimate from a handful of them.  I'll remember which ones didn't want my business when I have other projects.

I can understand taking pride in your work.  Your statement about not wanting to provide a bid for a homeowner who gets multiple quotes really seems arrogant.  That probably isn't what you intended.  Some homeowners don't just shop on price.  Some shop on price, reputation, citizenship status, etc., and many are willing to pay more than the lowest bid if the contractor is reliable, a good communicator, and has a good track record.  To give up a potential opportunity because your bid may have some competition seems odd to me.  But, its your business, and I hope it all works for you.

You ever spec out a 30k exterior re-do with windows, trim, siding, insulation, sheeting and all the things that go along with it?

Do you know what kind of effort and energy goes into that?  How many sit downs and meetings that are involved?

Now if they were willing to pay 200 bucks for it, sure can do.  I will not give all my time away for free, why should I?

That's fine if they don't call me back, because obviously it was not going to work to begin with.

Not going to waste a weeks worth of time so someone can price shop 5 different people.

Guess what?  There is still nothing done at that particular place either, hmmmmm wonder why?

 

[Kodi Crescent]

You ever spec out a 30k exterior re-do with windows, trim, siding, insulation, sheeting and all the things that go along with it?

Do you know what kind of effort and energy goes into that?  How many sit downs and meetings that are involved?

Now if they were willing to pay 200 bucks for it, sure can do.  I will not give all my time away for free, why should I?

That's fine if they don't call me back, because obviously it was not going to work to begin with.

Not going to waste a weeks worth of time so someone can price shop 5 different people.

Guess what?  There is still nothing done at that particular place either, hmmmmm wonder why?

No, I haven't spec'd out a $30k exterior re-do with windows, trim, siding, insulation, sheeting and all the things that go with it.

But I have spec'd out a $50k exterior re-do with plan drawings and revisions, excavation, engineered segmental retaining wall, paver patio and sitting walls, gas fire pit, paver front walkway, driveway widening, parking pad installation, fencing, grading, subsurface drainage, erosion control and lawn installation.  It took a long time.

But are we talking a "spec" as in a drawing, or an estimate to complete the work?  If you are doing the engineering/architectural/planning work, then yes, they should pay you for that.  If they have a product of your time that they could use for spec'ing or bidding the job, then yes, they should probably pay you for that.  If they are just asking for an estimate, then they shouldn't be charged for that.

 

[peter halle]

Unless I am mistaken, this thread was about an anticipated price increase on Festool products and has now - for quite a while - gone off topic.

Let's stay on topic please, or this thread will be closed.

Thanks,

Peter

 

[Joe Smith]

There is no such thing as a 10 or 20 minute job.  By all three of the bids coming in around the same, should tell you they were not out of line.

The bottom line is it cost money to be in business, you cant look at what you can do it  yourself for compared to what it cost a company to do it, it is no where near the same. I can wash my own truck for a couple dollars, does that mean  I should expect the shop down the road with a building, employees, insurance to do it for the same?

You obviously did not understand what I was saying.  

It is a 10 minute job and they all said it was. I was not willing to pay what they wanted, so they priced themselves out of my job.

It does not matter what the cost to do business is, the bottom line is what the average customer is willing to pay.  You can have as much or as little overhead costs as you want, and you can charge whatever it is you want, but unless you have a customer to buy what you are selling, your costs do not mean anything, because you are not selling anything.

The current price for a item is based on numerous factors, but ultimately comes down to how much someone is willing to pay for them.

BTW, you are wrong about there not being a 10-20 minute job.

 

[jmbfestool]

Festool prices do go down though just before new year my dealer told me some festool prices are going up and some aown going down even though our VAT in the uk has gone up from 17.5% to 20% he said some festool tools will be cheaper after new year. CXS was one of the tools to go down in price by 3pounds and he said a few more other tools

Jmb

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Sorry, I just get tired of the general public thinking that they can dictate what my costs are.
Which is no different then complaining about what a certain tool company does with their pricing.
Every business has overhead to cover and they should know what that is.
They don't have to make everyone happy with the prices, just their bottom line.

Does anyone call 5 doctors to get an estimate on what they charge for delivering a baby?

If you don't like the pricing you get from someone or what someone charges for a certain item,
you are free to find other options.

I really hate providing free estimates, it eats up a lot of my personal time.
Which is why I try to eliminate the tire kickers or the chronically cheap from the get go.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Here's my $2.  Sorry but with overhead, I can't do  [2cents].  I understand and agree with a little from both sides of this issue.  First let me state that I've always been upset about the fact that most people look at carpentry as being a lowly trade and of significantly lower value than other professions and trades.  A good amount of this probably stems from carpenters not needing any licensing or certification for many, many years.  A lot of carpentry jobs were done by handymen and un or poorly skilled individuals, also many unscrupulous workers with shotty workmanship and no pride for their work and skill set.  When enough of that occurs, it puts a bad light on the whole of us.  Plumbers and electricians, for example, are held to a higher regard or rank in the blue-collar family.  As a whole, they charge more and customers have come to expect that.  One of the things I liked about the carpenter's union is that they try to bring together carpenters, train them as best as possible and keep their wages and benefits high to a point of placing a respectable value on their skills.  I know there are plenty of things unions do that people disagree with, and I have a personal list as well, but the fact that they show to employers we are a respectable trade that's worthy of a decent rate will hopefully change our future for the better.
I can remember a customer of mine, a house flipper, who made me re-write contracts so many times to try and cut this or that or re-do something, it took me hours, days.  It drove me nuts, but I was already invested in the major remodel, so it was in my best interest to complete all the smaller stuff.  I made a point in telling her that I should have charged her for all the re-writes as my time is just as valuable as hers.  That's something I saw she always had a problem with, with all the different trades she had hired.  She didn't value their time, but she placed a high value on hers.
I've also had customers that tried to play games with me.  It was obvious they had good liquidity (cash on hand - for those foreign readers), some had even admitted to my face, but then telling me that the economy is really bad and they're able to get carpenters to cut their rates by 2/3 is like spitting in my face and expecting me to basically work for nothing, actually it would cost me money, especially due to the travel.  These kind of people will never get it.  They treat us like crap and those carpenters that do the job for peanuts only hurt the rest of us as a whole.
I do believe that we should adjust our rates, if possible, due to the depression and it is a depression.  However, I don't think you should put such a low value on yourself and your skills by just grabbing any job for the wages.  If you're that hurting, get local, state, federal assistance.  Try a different field temporarily.  Work as a carpenter for someone else if you can.  Go back to school to increase your education if possible, but don't sell yourself and the rest of this trade short just to scrape up a dime.
Carpenter shouldn't be a "dirty" word.

P.S.  I am not running for any political office, but if you want to start a Festool fund for me, thank you for your support.  [smile]

 

[Joe Smith]

Enough about how much to charge ;D

I think if Festool raises their prices and no one buys anything or not enough people buy from them to meet their projections, they will lower their costs or cut costs in another area. I am not sure if Festool is a publicly traded corporation, but if they are and they do not meet their profit projections, their shareholders will require them to do something. This has happened to other tool companies and also is a reason why some of them go down hill in quality.  I have a feeling that Festool is not going to lower prices and it is not going to affect their profits.

I was going to buy something, but not before 1 March, so I guess I will pay the higher price.  [crying]

 

[peter halle]

Unless I am mistaken, this thread was about an anticipated price increase on Festool products and has now - for quite a while - gone off topic.

Let's stay on topic please, or this thread will be closed.

This thread is now closed.

Peter