Festool Recon Kapex purchase

[Johnhend]

I purchased the Kapex 120 about 2 weeks ago from the Festool Recon site for about $1120. First I received the saw without the bevel which has been shipped (thank you) but then the exact same saw was listed a week later on the same site for $958!!  When asked for a credit for the difference I was told no.  This does not seem like a good way to make happy customers.

 

[ChuckM]

Did they say why?

Perhaps the two saws are not identical in terms of condition or age, etc.?

If the two saws were reconditioned with different costs involved, they might be resold at different prices, too.

 

[Aclaw]

I purchased the Kapex 120 about 2 weeks ago from the Festool Recon site for about $1120. First I received the saw without the bevel which has been shipped (thank you) but then the exact same saw was listed a week later on the same site for $958!!  When asked for a credit for the difference I was told no.  This does not seem like a good way to make happy customers.

Why would you get a price adjustment on a used tool?  Its not an apples to apples swap.  If you buy a used car this week and then find the same make and model used car the following week, you're not going back to the dealership for a price adjustment.

 

[antss]

The 2nd offering of Kapex was at a steeper discount than the first - which didn't sell as well as the other tools in the sale.  Festool didn't comment on the bigger discount, and I doubt they will.  It's still the only tool that has gone beyond the 25% discount.  Draw your own conclusions.

I don't think the main intent of Festool on this was customer satisfaction.  It was simply to liquidate their not new tool inventory.  They work very hard to maintain a high price structure and discounting is not part of the plan.

In past sales , they had staggered discount levels and the larger the discount the less new the tools were.  I can't say if that is happening here though.

If you haven't read the Recon discussion, you may want to check it out.............................

If you're brave.................and have a lot of time.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-sales-dealer-area/festoolrecon-com-coming-soon-(us)/

 

[McNally Family]

I purchased the Kapex 120 about 2 weeks ago from the Festool Recon site for about $1120. First I received the saw without the bevel which has been shipped (thank you) but then the exact same saw was listed a week later on the same site for $958!!  When asked for a credit for the difference I was told no.  This does not seem like a good way to make happy customers.

Amazon Warehouse Deals does this all the time.  They will have multiple listings for the same returned items, with prices based on actual condition, with variables such as damaged original packaging, % of cosmetic problems, and overall condition. 

I buy these Amazon discounted items all the time and have never had a problem with the functionality of the item in question. 

Years ago, while renovating a 100 year old apartment building, we would set the rent for the apartments based on how much money we had invested in the renovation itself.  If the hard wood floors had been refinished, the rent went up. 

There is nothing unusual about this approach.

If you buy retail/new, then a few days later the store has a sale for the same item, it is much more acceptable to return the item and repurchase at the now discounted price.   

 

[antss]

What if you buy a tool that goes up in value. ?

Are you going to send Festool a check for for that 10 year old Domino that you bought for $750 and sold on eBay for $850 last month ?

 

[Johnhend]

What if you buy a tool that goes up in value. ?

Are you going to send Festool a check for for that 10 year old Domino that you bought for $750 and sold on eBay for $850 last month ?

Never had a used tool go up in value but even if it did, I'm not a retail tool manufacturer so this example is kind of stupid.

I purchased the Kapex 120 about 2 weeks ago from the Festool Recon site for about $1120. First I received the saw without the bevel which has been shipped (thank you) but then the exact same saw was listed a week later on the same site for $958!!  When asked for a credit for the difference I was told no.  This does not seem like a good way to make happy customers.

Why would you get a price adjustment on a used tool?  Its not an apples to apples swap.  If you buy a used car this week and then find the same make and model used car the following week, you're not going back to the dealership for a price adjustment.

Not sure how two exact same model Kapex saws are not apples to apples.  If the used car was the exact same condition and mileage and selling for 15 percent less than what I just paid you better believe I'd be pissed. 

So I don't think my post was received very well by some folks here who honestly come across like Festool fanboys or shareholders. A reconditioned tool sold by the manufacturer is not the same as Joe Homeowner selling used tools on eBay or a used car lot. If I walked into a retail store and bought a factory reconditioned tool and a week later they had it for sale for less than I paid, most reputable stores will offer up the difference as a measure of good will to the customer. Festool is supposed to have outstanding customer service so I assumed that they would at least be on par with a Home Depot or Walmart but now they have a customer who was quickly dismissed and not shown any good will who had previously happily handed over several thousand hard earned dollars for their tools and will probably not purchase any more just because of the bad taste they left trying to offload their returned merchandise.  So lessons learned, I also won't dare to look for consolement from an Internet forum of fanboys.

 

[McNally Family]

Wow.

It's still early, you probably just haven't had your coffee yet.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

What if you buy a tool that goes up in value. ?

Are you going to send Festool a check for for that 10 year old Domino that you bought for $750 and sold on eBay for $850 last month ?

Never had a used tool go up in value but even if it did, I'm not a retail tool manufacturer so this example is kind of stupid.

I purchased the Kapex 120 about 2 weeks ago from the Festool Recon site for about $1120. First I received the saw without the bevel which has been shipped (thank you) but then the exact same saw was listed a week later on the same site for $958!!  When asked for a credit for the difference I was told no.  This does not seem like a good way to make happy customers.

Why would you get a price adjustment on a used tool?  Its not an apples to apples swap.  If you buy a used car this week and then find the same make and model used car the following week, you're not going back to the dealership for a price adjustment.

Not sure how two exact same model Kapex saws are not apples to apples.  If the used car was the exact same condition and mileage and selling for 15 percent less than what I just paid you better believe I'd be ticked. 

So I don't think my post was received very well by some folks here who honestly come across like Festool fanboys or shareholders. A reconditioned tool sold by the manufacturer is not the same as Joe Homeowner selling used tools on eBay or a used car lot. If I walked into a retail store and bought a factory reconditioned tool and a week later they had it for sale for less than I paid, most reputable stores will offer up the difference as a measure of good will to the customer. Festool is supposed to have outstanding customer service so I assumed that they would at least be on par with a Home Depot or Walmart but now they have a customer who was quickly dismissed and not shown any good will who had previously happily handed over several thousand hard earned dollars for their tools and will probably not purchase any more just because of the bad taste they left trying to offload their returned merchandise.  So lessons learned, I also won't dare to look for consolement from an Internet forum of fanboys.

Sorry for your frustration, have you reached out to [member=57769]TylerC[/member] yet?  Not sure that he can do much but it worth a try. I see your point,  but we also don't know if the discount was for different levels of recondition.  Please reach out to Tyler.

 

[semenza]

So I don't think my post was received very well by some folks here who honestly come across like Festool fanboys or shareholders. A reconditioned tool sold by the manufacturer is not the same as Joe Homeowner selling used tools on eBay or a used car lot. If I walked into a retail store and bought a factory reconditioned tool and a week later they had it for sale for less than I paid, most reputable stores will offer up the difference as a measure of good will to the customer. Festool is supposed to have outstanding customer service so I assumed that they would at least be on par with a Home Depot or Walmart but now they have a customer who was quickly dismissed and not shown any good will who had previously happily handed over several thousand hard earned dollars for their tools and will probably not purchase any more just because of the bad taste they left trying to offload their returned merchandise.  So lessons learned, I also won't dare to look for consolement from an Internet forum of fanboys.

      If you are looking for  consolation  , then you have mine. I have been in your position myself. Purchasing something and then having it go on sale or the price be reduced a very short period of time later. Very frustrating but that is the way it goes sometimes. Some places will give you the new lower price and some won't.

    I would like to point out that some of the most critical replies in this topic as to whether or not you should get  the new price are from members that could not be considered  fanboys  by any stretch.

Seth

 

[antss]

Not sure how two exact same model Kapex saws are not apples to apples.  If the used car was the exact same condition and mileage and selling for 15 percent less than what I just paid you better believe I'd be ticked.

Here's the rub:  those cars won't be exactly the same.  Mileage will be different and likely the color and , for sure the options will be a bit different.  Perhaps the more expensive one will have phantasmic glow paint which was more popular than navy.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be put out.  I'd be ticked too.  But...............

Festool is not a retailer.  The condition of the two saws wasn't disclosed.  The 2nd round may have been really rough like sander ScoFF received.  - or - Not

FT should probably make a statement here.

I've already said I think the purpose of this sale isn't to promote goodwill or customer approval.  That may be a byproduct.  For some.  It's to clear the warehouse of old and unclaimed stock.  If you carefully read the terms of sale , you can see that what you receive can vary greatly, and they're non specific about it.  On purpose.  Someone has to get the old beat up sander that was returned on day 29. 

Just like musical chairs.  Great fun until you sit in a chair with gum on it ; or you're the one left standing.  You don't have to be happy about it, but you were told the rules beforehand.  You may also want to read the numerous Kapex threads around here if you haven't already.  I can't imagine how you'll feel if yours suddenly quits working in a couple of years. 

 

[jeh]

Not sure how two exact same model Kapex saws are not apples to apples.  If the used car was the exact same condition and mileage and selling for 15 percent less than what I just paid you better believe I'd be ticked.

Here's the rub:  those cars won't be exactly the same.  Mileage will be different and likely the color and , for sure the options will be a bit different.  Perhaps the more expensive one will have phantasmic glow paint which was more popular than navy.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be put out.  I'd be ticked too.  But...............

Festool is not a retailer.  The condition of the two saws wasn't disclosed.  The 2nd round may have been really rough like sander ScoFF received.  - or - Not

FT should probably make a statement here.

I've already said I think the purpose of this sale isn't to promote goodwill or customer approval.  That may be a byproduct.  For some.  It's to clear the warehouse of old and unclaimed stock.  If you carefully read the terms of sale , you can see that what you receive can vary greatly, and they're non specific about it.  On purpose.  Someone has to get the old beat up sander that was returned on day 29. 

Just like musical chairs.  Great fun until you sit in a chair with gum on it ; or you're the one left standing.  You don't have to be happy about it, but you were told the rules beforehand.  You may also want to read the numerous Kapex threads around here if you haven't already.  I can't imagine how you'll feel if yours suddenly quits working in a couple of years.

It really is enough already on sharp-shooting this that and the other when it comes to what Festool does. They were having a recon sale so these were not new items. Like every business you want the maximum price the market can absorb. They tried one price and they either did not sell out or they had some lesser quality ones to sell. The goal is to get rid of all of them and start with a clean slate. My question for the purchaser is why buy the Kapex with its' history. You don't get the warranty of a new one, but you can set aside the savings for the potential repair.

 

[Cochese]

What if you buy a tool that goes up in value. ?

Are you going to send Festool a check for for that 10 year old Domino that you bought for $750 and sold on eBay for $850 last month ?

Never had a used tool go up in value but even if it did, I'm not a retail tool manufacturer so this example is kind of stupid.

I purchased the Kapex 120 about 2 weeks ago from the Festool Recon site for about $1120. First I received the saw without the bevel which has been shipped (thank you) but then the exact same saw was listed a week later on the same site for $958!!  When asked for a credit for the difference I was told no.  This does not seem like a good way to make happy customers.

Why would you get a price adjustment on a used tool?  Its not an apples to apples swap.  If you buy a used car this week and then find the same make and model used car the following week, you're not going back to the dealership for a price adjustment.

Not sure how two exact same model Kapex saws are not apples to apples.  If the used car was the exact same condition and mileage and selling for 15 percent less than what I just paid you better believe I'd be ticked. 

So I don't think my post was received very well by some folks here who honestly come across like Festool fanboys or shareholders. A reconditioned tool sold by the manufacturer is not the same as Joe Homeowner selling used tools on eBay or a used car lot. If I walked into a retail store and bought a factory reconditioned tool and a week later they had it for sale for less than I paid, most reputable stores will offer up the difference as a measure of good will to the customer. Festool is supposed to have outstanding customer service so I assumed that they would at least be on par with a Home Depot or Walmart but now they have a customer who was quickly dismissed and not shown any good will who had previously happily handed over several thousand hard earned dollars for their tools and will probably not purchase any more just because of the bad taste they left trying to offload their returned merchandise.  So lessons learned, I also won't dare to look for consolement from an Internet forum of fanboys.

You're claiming that the tools offered at different price points were in the exact same condition. I'd ask you to prove that.

Because the proof exists otherwise based on many years of these recon sales.

 

[semenza]

I think speculation on whether or not the change in the amount of discount has anything to do with the condition of the tool is just that ............ pure speculation.

Seth

 

[HarveyWildes]

I'm with [member=66004]Johnhend[/member] on this one.

With all the speculation about differences in condition, I'm thinking it's a lot more likely that the first batch of Kapex recons didn't sell out in 15 minutes (perhaps for reasons that FOGers will understand), so they lowered the price on the second batch to get rid of them faster.  I think they are trying to build a mystique around the emails that says, "if you don't pull the trigger on this deal -now-, it will be gone."  They don't want people to think too long about whether to buy or not.  They are manipulating emotions by manufacturing a sense of urgency.  And for the most part it's working, but when something like the Kapex doesn't sell out right away, they take steps to deal with it next time by lowering the price to maintain the illusion that you have to buy now.  John is just a victim of market pricing strategies, and Festool isn't providing any price guarantees.  Caveat Emptor.

Admittedly speculation on my part, but it has some amount of explanatory power.  It makes more sense to me than thinking that Festool is examining the condition of each recon tool to determine the price point.

 

[Svar]

I agree with Harvey, but I would not describe the buyer as a "victim". It's a fair game.
Prices fluctuate all the time for myriad of reasons. What is the problem here?

 

[HarveyWildes]

Fair enough, in the context of wide-open capitalist economics.  But people who want to establish brand loyalty over the long run know that part of the brand loyalty comes from giving potential buyers an orderly, predictable way of interacting with the brand.  Most of the time Festool gets the orderly, predictable part right, at least with their new tools, but I've seen holes in the last couple of years:
*  The Pro 5 promotion wasn't botched because it was a bad deal.  It was botched because the stock was committed before the advertisements were published.  That makes Festool appear capricious.
*  The current approach to refurb sales (if I'm right) where prices can vary by 15-20% without notice from sale to sale, or where old products are offered without clarity, or where the products do not appear to have been reconditioned, makes Festool appear capricious, especially with the situational (e.g. manufactured) pressure to buy now.
*  Reliability issues that go unaddressed and un-remedied make Festool appear capricious - are they all about reliability or not?

Perceptions of capriciousness rather than dependability translate to lack of trust, and that is bad for long term brand loyalty.

So maybe "victim" isn't the right word, but I certainly sympathize with John if he has less trust in the Festool brand today than he did a couple of weeks ago.

 

[cghunt]

Regarding Festool recon purchases in general, what experiences have been had with the condition upon arrival? The reason I ask is I was extremely disappointed in the condition of CT 36 E I received today… besides the hose garage being completely destroyed, it was completely covered in filth. In my opinion the unit was not reconditioned but plucked straight from a job site and sent to my door. With a manufacture date of 04/2010 I would hardly say the unit was gently used. With the amount of grime on the outside there is no way the internals could have been inspected for wear. With all that being said, still paying close to 600usd for a 7+ year old, dirty, damaged unit seems insane. I was under the assumption Festool would not allow this lack of detail.

 

[ishmerc]

Regarding Festool recon purchases in general, what experiences have been had with the condition upon arrival? The reason I ask is I was extremely disappointed in the condition of CT 36 E I received today… besides the hose garage being completely destroyed, it was completely covered in filth. In my opinion the unit was not reconditioned but plucked straight from a job site and sent to my door. With a manufacture date of 04/2010 I would hardly say the unit was gently used. With the amount of grime on the outside there is no way the internals could have been inspected for wear. With all that being said, still paying close to 600usd for a 7+ year old, dirty, damaged unit seems insane. I was under the assumption Festool would not allow this lack of detail.

Put it back in the box ,write return to sender.Call UPS to come pick it up ,and wait for a refund .You don't even have to call them .They'll know what to do once it arrive .

 

[peter halle]

Regarding Festool recon purchases in general, what experiences have been had with the condition upon arrival? The reason I ask is I was extremely disappointed in the condition of CT 36 E I received today… besides the hose garage being completely destroyed, it was completely covered in filth. In my opinion the unit was not reconditioned but plucked straight from a job site and sent to my door. With a manufacture date of 04/2010 I would hardly say the unit was gently used. With the amount of grime on the outside there is no way the internals could have been inspected for wear. With all that being said, still paying close to 600usd for a 7+ year old, dirty, damaged unit seems insane. I was under the assumption Festool would not allow this lack of detail.

I guess I have to ask the question that will be formulating in others' minds - Did you even try to contact Festool about what you received before posting here?  You didn't mention that in your first post here.  If not, you probably should do that and give them the same courtesy you would expect as a manufacturer and retailer.

[member=57769]TylerC[/member]

Peter