Festool sander & new CT SYS vac?

[impecunious]

Hi guys,

So I installed my first patio door interior casing this past week in a "Classical Craftsman" style, complete with 3.25" side casing and a 3.5" frieze that's sandwiched & recessed between a bead and a cornice.  I'm planning to eventually redo the interior trim in all the house with this same style, so I'm trying to learn what I can from this test case in terms of what gear will make life easier for future installs.

Thinking that the combination of the RTS 400 small rectangular sander and the new CT SYS vac would be perfect for prepping my trim after installation and prior to final paint, I ordered this combination earlier this week and gave it a shot today.  The footprint of the RTS 400 is absolutely perfect as I expected for my side casing & frieze.  However, I ran into a bit of a problem...

Every time I tried to touch the sander flush to the frieze, it skipped around like it was on crack or something.  I ended up having to carefully sand my filled nail holes with just the front edge of the sander, taking care to avoid setting the entire sander flush on the wood.  And although I had an easier time sanding the side casing, I could only do so with the sander straddling the casing perpendicular, and moving the sander like this up and down.  If I tried to orient it long-ways with the casing, it would skip around like with the frieze.

I've never used a true orbital sander before, but I would assume I should be able to move this sander around in any direction without a problem.  Thus, (and I almost hate to ask, but) is it possible that my new CT SYS is pulling too much vacuum for the sander to actually sand properly?  Unlike the normal CT vacs, there doesn't seem to be a way to dial down the suction on the CT SYS, so if this is the problem I would really hate to have to return this neat setup back to the store.

 

[Mort]

The idea is the lower suction of the CT-Sys was so you didn't have to dial it down for sanding. Do you hear the motor bog down when you sand something flat? If not I'd probably not suspect the vac.

 

[impecunious]

Thanks.  To be honest, I didn't listen closely to the CT SYS motor when using it with the sander so I'm not sure.  But I did probably use the sander at too low of a setting (around 3).  I tried a little experiment in the garage this morning using the sander dialed up to 6, and this seemed to improve (reduce) the chatter quite a bit.  But I'm still scratching my head a bit here...

 

[Brice Burrell]

The idea is the lower suction of the CT-Sys was so you didn't have to dial it down for sanding. Do you hear the motor bog down when you sand something flat? If not I'd probably not suspect the vac.

I wouldn't say the idea of the lower suction was for sanding, but rather a design limitation of such a small vac.  Also, I'm not so sure the CT-Sys is ideal for all types of sanding since it doesn't have the variable suction.  I just don't think I'd ever buy the CT-Sys without the variable suction.  That's a shame because I love the idea of a small Systainer sized vac. 

I had the RTS 400 and never warmed up to it.  In fact, it's one of the few tools I've sold. In general I'm not a fan of orbital sanders. 

 

[Brice Burrell]

Thanks.  To be honest, I didn't listen closely to the CT SYS motor when using it with the sander so I'm not sure.  But I did probably use the sander at too low of a setting (around 3).  I tried a little experiment in the garage this morning using the sander dialed up to 6, and this seemed to improve (reduce) the chatter quite a bit.  But I'm still scratching my head a bit here...

From my experience, I could never get the RTS to be happy on any other setting other full speed.

 

[ear3]

I actually just picked up the CT-Sys yesterday, so after reading your comment I went out and tested it with the RTS400.  Indeed, the suction is a little more than optimal for this sander, which, when hooked up to my CT26, I normally run at 1/4 to 1/3 power.  I found that it's not a complete wash, and that if you apply some lift to the unit while sanding it will still glide over the surface without chattering.  But really, without the variable suction, this vac works best only with the sanders whose pads rotate.

I suspect this will also be an issue with the DTS400 and RS2 sanders, but someone with those units should test them out and see.

Hi guys,

So I installed my first patio door interior casing this past week in a "Classical Craftsman" style, complete with 3.25" side casing and a 3.5" frieze that's sandwiched & recessed between a bead and a cornice.  I'm planning to eventually redo the interior trim in all the house with this same style, so I'm trying to learn what I can from this test case in terms of what gear will make life easier for future installs.

Thinking that the combination of the RTS 400 small rectangular sander and the new CT SYS vac would be perfect for prepping my trim after installation and prior to final paint, I ordered this combination earlier this week and gave it a shot today.  The footprint of the RTS 400 is absolutely perfect as I expected for my side casing & frieze.  However, I ran into a bit of a problem...

Every time I tried to touch the sander flush to the frieze, it skipped around like it was on crack or something.  I ended up having to carefully sand my filled nail holes with just the front edge of the sander, taking care to avoid setting the entire sander flush on the wood.  And although I had an easier time sanding the side casing, I could only do so with the sander straddling the casing perpendicular, and moving the sander like this up and down.  If I tried to orient it long-ways with the casing, it would skip around like with the frieze.

I've never used a true orbital sander before, but I would assume I should be able to move this sander around in any direction without a problem.  Thus, (and I almost hate to ask, but) is it possible that my new CT SYS is pulling too much vacuum for the sander to actually sand properly?  Unlike the normal CT vacs, there doesn't seem to be a way to dial down the suction on the CT SYS, so if this is the problem I would really hate to have to return this neat setup back to the store.

 

[impecunious]

From my experience, I could never get the RTS to be happy on any other setting other full speed.

OK... so this jives with my experience this morning.  Good to know.

All things considered, I don't know of a better sander in the lineup than the RTS 400 that will fit this small space allowance I have for this particular project (

 

[Brice Burrell]

From my experience, I could never get the RTS to be happy on any other setting other full speed.

OK... so this jives with my experience this morning.  Good to know.

All things considered, I don't know of a better sander in the lineup than the RTS 400 that will fit this small space allowance I have for this particular project (

 

[ear3]

Don't know how handy/machanical you are, but I bet there's a way to make an adapter to put between the sander and the hose that would have an opening you could open/close to vary suction, much like what's on the hsk sanding block hose.

From my experience, I could never get the RTS to be happy on any other setting other full speed.

OK... so this jives with my experience this morning.  Good to know.

All things considered, I don't know of a better sander in the lineup than the RTS 400 that will fit this small space allowance I have for this particular project (

 

[impecunious]

Oh, the RO90 would work on your trim too.

The RO90 has the circular 3.5" pad right?  I had considered this, but my frieze is also exactly 3.5".  I'd be afraid of having zero clearance for the RO90's pad and therefore chattering and jumping all over the place as it hits my bead and cornice on either side.  Or is this not a legit concern?  I've never used a power sander for something like this before.

 

[nclemmons]

Per Edward's suggestion... here's a Fein suction control that might work...
http://www.amazon.com/Fein-SUCTION-...e=UTF8&qid=1462634725&sr=8-6&keywords=suction+hose+reducer

As an alternative, it would be relatively simple to 3-D print a hose insert to fit the 27mm hose that could be cut and screwed into each side with a hole in it and a rotating ring to adjust suction. 

Agree this would be a natural inclusion for the CT-Sys vac.

 

[AlexThePalex]

With the full 1000W of the CTL-SYS sucking on the RTS400 this is the be expected. This is a perfect example of how a sander just doesn't work with the CTL-SYS. Dumbest design decision ever not to include a suction dial. I have a €20 min vac that has controllable suction, there's just no excuse to leave it out.

 

[leakyroof]

Don't know how handy/machanical you are, but I bet there's a way to make an adapter to put between the sander and the hose that would have an opening you could open/close to vary suction, much like what's on the hsk sanding block hose.

From my experience, I could never get the RTS to be happy on any other setting other full speed.

OK... so this jives with my experience this morning.  Good to know.

All things considered, I don't know of a better sander in the lineup than the RTS 400 that will fit this small space allowance I have for this particular project (

 

[impecunious]

Yes! My thoughts exactly . A valve that you open to lower the suction.

This is an interesting idea.  It's kind of a bummer I have to jerry-rig the vac to get around this problem (which is definitely unusual to have to do for Festool gear, at least in my experience).  I will certainly look into this though.  Hopefully there's one that easily fits the sander and the 27mm hose...

EDIT: This may be a dumb question, but would using an adapter with holes to reduce the suction also mean that more of the sanding dust slips through these holes & into the air?

 

[greg mann]

Yes! My thoughts exactly . A valve that you open to lower the suction.

This is an interesting idea.  It's kind of a bummer I have to jerry-rig the vac to get around this problem (which is definitely unusual to have to do for Festool gear, at least in my experience).  I will certainly look into this though.  Hopefully there's one that easily fits the sander and the 27mm hose...

EDIT: This may be a dumb question, but would using an adapter with holes to reduce the suction also mean that more of the sanding dust slips through these holes & into the air?

No dust will escape thru the holes as the air current will be inward thru them.

 

[leakyroof]

Yes! My thoughts exactly . A valve that you open to lower the suction.

This is an interesting idea.  It's kind of a bummer I have to jerry-rig the vac to get around this problem (which is definitely unusual to have to do for Festool gear, at least in my experience).  I will certainly look into this though.  Hopefully there's one that easily fits the sander and the 27mm hose...

EDIT: This may be a dumb question, but would using an adapter with holes to reduce the suction also mean that more of the sanding dust slips through these holes & into the air?

. I haven't looked at the Sys- Vac tool yet. Can it use/accept the usual 50mm hose end or does it have a special hose end more like the Midi?

 

[impecunious]

So after a little soul searching this weekend ( ), I think I've come up with a solution that should resolve the issue I have with the CT SYS' lack of suction adjust AND give me an improvement for my home workshop.  The answer?  Either a CT MINI or MIDI. 

Why?  Because I have the Kapex on the UG stand today, and getting either one of these vacs means I can store it underneath the cart without taking up any more shop footprint.  Plus, now I'd have a dedicated vac for the Kapex, which means I have more flexibility in where I can store it and can now finally run a short 36mm hose direct from the new vac to it and get the nice dust control so many of you guys here enjoy over the standard 27mm hose.  Both of these vacs should be just as conveniently portable as the CT SYS too, I would hope (especially the MINI).  And both are 15% off right now to boot... score!

I'm happy enough with my plan.  I wanted the CT SYS to work, but as a tool that's supposedly marketed to painters I'm a little disappointed at the lack of suction control for sanding.  Oh well.

 

[DB10]

So after a little soul searching this weekend ( ), I think I've come up with a solution that should resolve the issue I have with the CT SYS' lack of suction adjust AND give me an improvement for my home workshop.  The answer?  Either a CT MINI or MIDI. 

Why?  Because I have the Kapex on the UG stand today, and getting either one of these vacs means I can store it underneath the cart without taking up any more shop footprint.  Plus, now I'd have a dedicated vac for the Kapex, which means I have more flexibility in where I can store it and can now finally run a short 36mm hose direct from the new vac to it and get the nice dust control so many of you guys here enjoy over the standard 27mm hose.  Both of these vacs should be just as conveniently portable as the CT SYS too, I would hope (especially the MINI).  And both are 15% off right now to boot... score!

I'm happy enough with my plan.  I wanted the CT SYS to work, but as a tool that's supposedly marketed to painters I'm a little disappointed at the lack of suction control for sanding.  Oh well.

Yep, the lack of suction control on the CT Sys is a major fail and has dampened my interest in this, plus it's just way too expensive down here to start with, It needs to be a lot more versatile to justify the cost!
  But a kapex with a Midi and a short 36 hose and the inclusion of a D/D. IMO is a great set up.