Festool sandpaper packaging "madness" :o

T

threesixright

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
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655
Hi,

Anybody that can explain why not all sandpaper can be bought in quantities of 10/50/100 ?

Anywhere a simple overview which grids and quantity are available per type and machine? FT's website is not truly user-friendly for this (understatement) and neither is their work app (hint to ft dev's: sort on grid?) :o
 
And while we're at it, why 100 grit Granat isn't available for the RTS and RS2 in America.
 
threesixright said:
Anybody that can explain why not all sandpaper can be bought in quantities of 10/50/100 ?
Click to expand...

There's hardly any logic to it. They're mostly geared towards professionals that's why most of their grits are available in 50 and 100 packs. And then some of the most popular papers and grits are also available in 10 for those who don't use that much.

I don't understand why they could not make a webpage where you can order any paper in any quantity you want and have it send to you or your local dealer for pick up.  The idea is so bloody simple and I'm sure people would really dig that.

threesixright said:
Anywhere a simple overview which grids and quantity are available per type and machine? FT's website is not truly user-friendly for this (understatement) and neither is their work app (hint to ft dev's: sort on grid?) :o
Click to expand...

Indeed, understatement of the year. Once, long ago they had a very nice website where I could find any kind of info about any kind of tool or accessory in a matter of seconds, now, with their new design, I just don't even bother anymore. The site is sloooooow, everything is hidden behind 30 layers of interface, and lots of stuff simply isn't there. No thanks.

I also noticed I used to buy lots of official Festool consumables back then, and now almost nothing. Everything I buy is 3rd party. Correlation or causation? I'll leave it to the Festool marketing geniusses to decide that.
 
I have to say I agree with Alex here, the target audience are professionals going through corresponding quantities.

The request for hand picked assortments has been made many times, and some dealers offer it. One of my brick and mortar store type dealer does it, mikestoolshop.at offers smaller quantities, online, too.

What I don't see, because of human error and time consuming process is true "old world candy shop" like hand picking: 1 here, 2 there and 3 of those ...

Kind regards,
Oliver
 
six-point socket II said:
What I don't see, because of human error and time consuming process is true "old world candy shop" like hand picking: 1 here, 2 there and 3 of those ...
Click to expand...

I don't understand what you mean here. This is standard operating procedure for any webshop. Of which there are countless numbers all over the net.
 
Well good to see I'm not the only one  [tongue]

I think FT is missing the mark, there are plenty of prosumers around here I would think.

I already ditched a few webshops, since they seemed to be missing paper in the low quantities. Well, so I thought (lol). Now it turns out, it simply isn't available. Apparently someone at FT throws a dice, which paper gets which quantities. What a crapshoot.

For some types there are 3rd party alternatives, but not for all I think. Anyone a 3rd party for the DTS P100 paper, since the only sell this by the 100 [mad] ? Sorry for a better word, but this is really nuts. I can even imagine not all pro's even want to buy this by the 100. Makes me want to reconsider a DTS [eek]

To FT's CIO, I'm happy to make you a offer for a real website ;) Just shoot me a PM.
 
Alex said:
six-point socket II said:
What I don't see, because of human error and time consuming process is true "old world candy shop" like hand picking: 1 here, 2 there and 3 of those ...
Click to expand...

I don't understand what you mean here. This is standard operating procedure for any webshop. Of which there are countless numbers all over the net.
Click to expand...
I think [member=61712]six-point socket II[/member]  is talking about sandpaper. So you can just a pick a few sheets of whatever you need and try it out. Since every job is different and you never know what works and how much you need. Just guessing here !  [tongue]
 
Alex said:
six-point socket II said:
What I don't see, because of human error and time consuming process is true "old world candy shop" like hand picking: 1 here, 2 there and 3 of those ...
Click to expand...

I don't understand what you mean here. This is standard operating procedure for any webshop. Of which there are countless numbers all over the net.
Click to expand...

What I meant by that, orders that would need to be picked/commissioned like this:

2 Sheets  40 grit round 150 dia.
2 Sheets 120 grit rectangular
1 Sheet  180 grit delta
3 Sheets 120 grit delta, type a
2 Sheets 120 grit delta, type b
4 Sheets  80 grit round 90 dia. net type
...

I can see that for brick and mortar stores on a self service base by providing a shelf with open boxes. But not as "service" and priced accordingly for online retail.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 
threesixright said:
Alex said:
six-point socket II said:
What I don't see, because of human error and time consuming process is true "old world candy shop" like hand picking: 1 here, 2 there and 3 of those ...
Click to expand...

I don't understand what you mean here. This is standard operating procedure for any webshop. Of which there are countless numbers all over the net.
Click to expand...
I think [member=61712]six-point socket II[/member]  is talking about sandpaper. So you can just a pick a few sheets of whatever you need and try it out. Since every job is different and you never know what works and how much you need. Just guessing here !  [tongue]
Click to expand...

You are correct, Sir! :)

Kind regards,
Oliver
 
Yes the Festool website is a disorganised mess - and this is the fault of German HQ as all international Fedtool Websites are based on the German website’s structure.

As for the sand papers - find a bricks and mortar store that splits packets - my preferred dealer has a rack of opened boxes.
 
six-point socket II said:
I have to say I agree with Alex here, the target audience are professionals going through corresponding quantities.

The request for hand picked assortments has been made many times, and some dealers offer it. One of my brick and mortar store type dealer does it, mikestoolshop.at offers smaller quantities, online, too.

What I don't see, because of human error and time consuming process is true "old world candy shop" like hand picking: 1 here, 2 there and 3 of those ...

Kind regards,
Oliver
Click to expand...

No person would be involved,  automated dispenser for this would be straightforward.  They probably don't have to look any further than the plant where the paper is made to find the machines all ready existing or the bits to put a setup together. 

maybe not much business to make a free standing business, but just team up with someone like Amazon,  1/2 dozen distro setups around the country where they have a machine set up with all the sizes and grits, it just grabs it all dumping it in the box and it's off and away.  No different than other things.

I think Festool thinks they win because people will have to buy large amounts and then buy for each machine. In the end, folks standardize on 1 size, and buy all their machines around that, so a 115mm sander, no thanks.  Also they look elsewhere as Alex mentions.  I did buy a big batch of stuff with all the grits to get going.  It truely felt insane.  But if I need more or other sizes, I'm probably looking elsewhere
 
What a insanity. A company got famous because of dust free sanding. Yet  paper is hard to get in normal quantities.

Why would you buy a car, if there is no fuel for it, except if you buy 1000 liters at a time?

FT please wake up, a official FT response would
appreciated. Wishful thinking?

Sent from my X using Tapatalk
 
threesixright said:
For some types there are 3rd party alternatives, but not for all I think. Anyone a 3rd party for the DTS P100 paper, since the only sell this by the 100 [mad] ?
Click to expand...

nonpaintstore.nl can help you with all your sanding needs all over the world.

six-point socket II said:
I can see that for brick and mortar stores on a self service base by providing a shelf with open boxes. But not as "service" and priced accordingly for online retail.
Click to expand...

It's already been done by countless webshops all over the net for many types of articles. Nothing new here, and fulfilling a typical order takes just minutes in a well set up organisation. There are for instance websites where you can order every single Lego brick in any quantity they have. Much more complicated than just a few sheets of sandpaper and yet they manage while not being an international multi-million dollar company like Festool. And it's not a stand alone operation, everything is connected, having sandpaper easily available will make it easier for people to justify buying an expensive sander. Or two.

DeformedTree said:
No person would be involved,  automated dispenser for this would be straightforward.  They probably don't have to look any further than the plant where the paper is made to find the machines all ready existing or the bits to put a setup together. 
Click to expand...

Exactly.

DeformedTree said:
I think Festool thinks they win because people will have to buy large amounts and then buy for each machine. In the end, folks standardize on 1 size, and buy all their machines around that, so a 115mm sander, no thanks.
Click to expand...

At one point I had 13 Festool sanders, I would have never bought so many if I hadn't been able to get sandpaper for them in low quantities. Now down to 6 sanders. I dumped the RO90 specifically because of the bad availability of sandpaper, would have loved to hang onto it and keep on buying paper in 10 packs for many years to come. 
 
Alex said:
It's already been done by countless webshops all over the net for many types of articles. N
Click to expand...
Any website comes to mind that do this for FT sand paper ?  [tongue]

I need to sand 15 large windows/doors (with glass) (~ 800x2000 metric) and I have not a clue how much I need. Add to that, I have not a clue what grit to start. I would just want to buy 10 of each for the whole range (P80 - P240 or so) and see what works.

For the DTS I probably need P120, P150 and P180 (to start with). Awesome only comes in 100 pieces per boxes, 150+ EUR. I don't mind spending it, if there is a need for it.

Is there any rule of thumb how long a piece of Granat actually lasts (when doing windows)? I mean: do I need to count with 1 piece  (avg) per window or can you do 5?

[rant starts]

To see what quantities are available you would think thats a 30 second lookup:

[list type=decimal]
[*]goto Festool(.nl)
[*]click Search (right top)
[*]type: P120
[*]yeah 931 hits ! very useful, lets narrow it down. Simply adding the machine would do it, right?
[*]type: P120 DTS
[*]wrong! zero results
[*]ok, well at least adding 'granat' works, right?
[*]P120 granat
[*]wrong! zero results
[/list]

[jawdrop]

This is really amature hour. A search engine that can not search and was clearly never tested.

Bottom line: "p120 granat dts" should just list all available abrasives for this machine/type/grit

Right, let's download their "order app", add the tool, goto abrasives. Awesome, all paper sorted in random order  [eek]. Very handy for an order app and people that like to scroll up and down to figure out what it is you have.

This website is a laugh, premium prices for tools, yet, to get the "fuel" for it, you need to fiddle around until you end up with RSI  [mad]

[member=6061]festool[/member] fix your search engine, it's not that hard, really not. I know, your probably "scammed" by some fancy-pantsy it-company with hour rates going through the roof, telling you its impossible or will charge you insane amount of $$$. But it shouldn't be hard and not cost a fortune. Put your CTO to work.

You would expect that an outstanding tool company like FT would have a dito website, guess not.

[rant ends]

This is simply ridiculous and utterly frustrating.
 
Alex said:
(...)

six-point socket II said:
I can see that for brick and mortar stores on a self service base by providing a shelf with open boxes. But not as "service" and priced accordingly for online retail.
Click to expand...

It's already been done by countless webshops all over the net for many types of articles. Nothing new here, and fulfilling a typical order takes just minutes in a well set up organisation. There are for instance websites where you can order every single Lego brick in any quantity they have. Much more complicated than just a few sheets of sandpaper and yet they manage while not being an international multi-million dollar company like Festool. And it's not a stand alone operation, everything is connected, having sandpaper easily available will make it easier for people to justify buying an expensive sander. Or two.

DeformedTree said:
No person would be involved,  automated dispenser for this would be straightforward.  They probably don't have to look any further than the plant where the paper is made to find the machines all ready existing or the bits to put a setup together. 
Click to expand...

Exactly.

(...)
Click to expand...

I see where you two are coming from. Imaginable? Yes! Personally, I don't see it.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 
"now, with their new design, I just don't even bother anymore. The site is sloooooow, everything is hidden behind 30 layers of interface, and lots of stuff simply isn't there."

But it's pretty, and that's what counts.

"having sandpaper easily available will make it easier for people to justify buying an expensive sander. Or two"

I have to agree with that. Every time I have thought about purchasing a Festool sander I have weighed my limited sources of consumables compared to other brand sanders.

For me the closest brick and mortar store is 35 miles away, so if I need something today it's a one hour drive each way plus a $5 bridge toll, so about $20 round trip just to get some sandpaper. I can of course order online, but since there is not "get it today" option on Amazon or elsewhere, that doesn't help if I need it now.

It would be nice if ToolNut or someone else could develop a sub-site where people could go and order just what they want in the quantities they want. How big is the selection of various grits, papers, sizes? A couple hundred items maybe.
 
threesixright said:
Any website comes to mind that do this for FT sand paper ?  [tongue]
Click to expand...

Nope.

threesixright said:
I need to sand 15 large windows/doors (with glass) (~ 800x2000 metric) and I have not a clue how much I need. Add to that, I have not a clue what grit to start. I would just want to buy 10 of each for the whole range (P80 - P240 or so) and see what works.
Click to expand...

I do this all day, more often than I'd actually like. I'd be able to paint most of your house's woodwork with one 50 piece pack of P80 and one of P180. €50 of Indasa paper, and done.

threesixright said:
For the DTS I probably need P120, P150 and P180 (to start with). Awesome only comes in 100 pieces per boxes, 150+ EUR. I don't mind spending it, if there is a need for it.
Click to expand...

There are 10 packs of P120 and P180. No need for P150.

threesixright said:
Is there any rule of thumb how long a piece of Granat actually lasts (when doing windows)? I mean: do I need to count with 1 piece  (avg) per window or can you do 5?
Click to expand...

Depends on what you sand, so there is no rule. Water based paints tend to gum up your paper a lot sooner than oil based. Sanding putty or plaster also gums up your paper much quicker.

threesixright said:
This is really amature hour. A search engine that can not search and was clearly never tested.
Click to expand...

It is, but as said by Bob, it looks nice!

Seems to me their current philosophy is to treat their website more as a brochure than as a knowledge base.
 
threesixright said:
Anywhere a simple overview which grids and quantity are available per type and machine?
Click to expand...

The only overview that I know of is near the last few pages of the Festool catalog. It's 4 pages long and highlights the sander, grit size, quantity, part number & price. Interestingly enough, they no longer list 10-packs so maybe they're no longer offering them.

As far as purchasing goes, Bob Marino used to let you select your own in quantities of 10 each, however I can't find that option on the BIS website.https://beavertools.com/festool-24/accessories/abrasives.html

As mentioned Festool Nirvana allows customization.https://www.festoolnirvana.com/coll...r-50-custom-abrasive-assortments-granat-50pcs

Woodcraft used to let you choose your own, then they went the variety sample pack route and now even that option is done.  [sad]

Edit:
Found this on the Festool website:https://www.festoolusa.com/knowledge/abrasives
 
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