Festool Tracksaw Blades - Video

[Stone Message]

Hi Everyone

I have had quite a few questions about blades for tracksaws and have seen a number of threads where people have sought advice. So, I have put a short video together explaining the blade types and their uses and do a demo in a thick piece of rather nice ash.

Here is the link:


The dynamics of the saw blade is very similar to that of the router cutter in that chipload is an important factor. It is the efficient clearing of the debris (saw dust) that determines the effectiveness and the quality of the cut. Cross cutting produces short fibres which can be cleared more easily than the longer ones created during rip cuts. The large cut out behind the teeth of the Panther blade is there to accommodate the extra fibres created during ripping.

Peter

 

[McNally Family]

Very informative.  If you were to just own two blades, of the three you demonstrated, which would you exclude?  I only ask because whatever blades I purchase, I also order a backup so when it comes time for sharpening, I have it's rotational replacement on hand.  Given a choice, I would prefer not to maintain a supply of three blades (or six with backup).

Thanks for the great video!

 

 

[Stone Message]

Very informative.  If you were to just own two blades, of the three you demonstrated, which would you exclude?  I only ask because whatever blades I purchase, I also order a backup so when it comes time for sharpening, I have it's rotational replacement on hand.  Given a choice, I would prefer not to maintain a supply of three blades (or six with backup).

Thanks for the great video!

I am like you - I usually buy two of each type of blade. When I bought my TS55 they were not allowed to give discounts in the UK (they are now) but I managed to get an extra blade thrown in. When I bought my Domino 500 I also got another TS55 blade thrown in to sweeten the deal.

Now that discounting is allowed the margins are pretty tight but I suppose we gain in the end.

Knowing which one to leave out is an interesting question and will depend on the balance of the work being done.

My TS55 on the tracks is used for sheet goods for 90% of the time (possibly 95%). I use the 48 tooth blade in that saw all the time.

I have a separate TS55 in the CMS unit and there I am cutting 90% hardwood and then most of that is oak. I started with the supplied 48 tooth blade which meant some slow rips and a bit of overheating. After I hit that nail with the TS on the track I swapped the 48 tooth from the CMS and replaced it with the Universal (28 tooth) blade. I have to rip more slowly than the Panther (12 tooth) blade but I get a good finish and no overheating.

The blades in the video are on loan and they are now ready for return. I will then have no Panther blade which does not worry me at all.

Peter

 

[bertv]

I own all TS55-blades (some in multiples) and the one I use the least is the Panther.

 

[Dick Mahany]

I've always been a blade changer, first with my table saw, and now with my TS55 REQ.  I'm currently building an entertainment center and cabinets from Maple hardwood and Maple veneer ply.  I was amazed at how clean the ply cuts were with the 48 tooth blade, but got some burning when ripping with it.  I changed over to the universal blade for ripping and obtain burn-free, glue-ready edges.  It is also yielding surprisingly clean cuts on the plywood, although not quite as clean as the fine tooth blade. 

I was partial to Forrest Mfg blades, but have found the stock Festool blades to be absolutely excellent.  (Still haven't tried out the panther blade as I don't have any thick stock to rip)

Excellent video.

 

[Stephen B]

Agree with those here discussing the virtues of both the standard and the 48 tooth blade when processing sheet goods. However, I use the Panther a lot when trimming solid timber.

Here, I have used the Panther to rip trim one edge of laminated Australian Blackwood shorts. This provided a straight edge for the table saw fence, and later the Thicknesser.

[attachimg=1]

[size=8pt]http://www.brittontimbers.com.au/timber/tasmanian-blackwood
http://www.woodsolutions.com.au/Wood-Species/species-blackwood

 

[windmill man]

Well what can i say,

The missing portion of the blabe after the shoulder is the "gullet"

The Panther is not a rip blade , its a course crosscut. Rip blades have square teeth.

I actually cant be bothered to continue with this.

That video was about as helpfull as a car salesman saying "yes its a car"

There was no mention of the effects of feed rate , rake of the teeth , materials or depth of cut all of which have great effects on the performance of a blade and influence of blade selection.

If you are going to set yourself up as a font of knowledge as least make that knowledge all encompassing 

 

[bkharman]

Well what can i say,

The missing portion of the blabe after the shoulder is the "gullet"

The Panther is not a rip blade , its a course crosscut. Rip blades have square teeth.

I actually cant be bothered to continue with this.

That video was about as helpfull as a car salesman saying "yes its a car"

There was no mention of the effects of feed rate , rake of the teeth , materials or depth of cut all of which have great effects on the performance of a blade and influence of blade selection.

If you are going to set yourself up as a font of knowledge as least make that knowledge all encompassing

Well what can I say...

Perhaps instead of chastising and belittling contributors to this forum, maybe share your insight.  If you feel that this is incomplete of off-base, then please share meaningful details to fill in the blanks.  I don't pretend to be an expert in everything, but things I am good at, I try and share my knowledge.  I hope to hear some additional useful points as I have a very limited knowledge of the science between saw blades and am always willing to hear more.

cheers.  Bryan.

 

[sancho57]

Well what can i say,

The missing portion of the blabe after the shoulder is the "gullet"

The Panther is not a rip blade , its a course crosscut. Rip blades have square teeth.

I actually cant be bothered to continue with this.

That video was about as helpfull as a car salesman saying "yes its a car"

There was no mention of the effects of feed rate , rake of the teeth , materials or depth of cut all of which have great effects on the performance of a blade and influence of blade selection.

If you are going to set yourself up as a font of knowledge as least make that knowledge all encompassing

That was a awesome post.

Very well written well thought out.

Plus very descriptive and informative to.

I for one learned so much from reading it that,

I will booked mark it so I can refer to it when ever I need a more  thorough explanation about saw blades types designs and uses.

I will share this with my friends to.

That way whenever they need information about saw blades they can refer to your post to.

 

[ear3]

Let's everyone keep it civil.

But could I ask you [member=1873]windmill man[/member] or someone else, to expand on the Panther blade not being a rip blade?  I was under the impression that it was (though I have to say that the results I've never been all that happy with the results I've gotten from that blade on my TS75)

EDIT: On the Festool site it says the blade is meant for rips.  Are they incorrect?
http://festoolusa.com/power-tool-ac...s/saw-blade-panther-16-tooth-for-ts-75-495378

Well what can i say,

The missing portion of the blabe after the shoulder is the "gullet"

The Panther is not a rip blade , its a course crosscut. Rip blades have square teeth.

I actually cant be bothered to continue with this.

That video was about as helpfull as a car salesman saying "yes its a car"

There was no mention of the effects of feed rate , rake of the teeth , materials or depth of cut all of which have great effects on the performance of a blade and influence of blade selection.

If you are going to set yourself up as a font of knowledge as least make that knowledge all encompassing

 

[Phil Beckley]

Hi
  Peter posted a straight forward video on blades which gives an overview of the benefits of the correct blade for the application in hand. I am sure he could have gone into much more detail but then you also end up with a lesson on physics as well due to the nature of what happens to the individual parts as the cut is made - keeping it simple on occasions is better to start a discussion and let others add their voices - so lets hear what others have to say on this........

  I recommend when asked the Panther for rip cuts.
  I recommend when asked the 28t blade for rip and cross cut on solid timber and for ply based materials
  I recommend when asked the 48t blade for man made boards - exception being Ply
  If I only had the choice of 2 blades it would be 48t and 28t
  Kitchen fitter - then of course include the laminate blade as well

We also have to remember that each area of the planet will cut different species of timber and different mixes of ply so some applications for blades will vary

rg
Phil

Festool supplied the blades and these will be collected for return to us.
 

 

[Phil Beckley]

Let's everyone keep it civil.

But could I ask you [member=1873]windmill man[/member] or someone else, to expand on the Panther blade not being a rip blade?  I was under the impression that it was (though I have to say that the results I've never been all that happy with the results I've gotten from that blade on my TS75)

EDIT: On the Festool site it says the blade is meant for rips.  Are they incorrect?
http://festoolusa.com/power-tool-ac...s/saw-blade-panther-16-tooth-for-ts-75-495378

  It is the same in the Festool UK site - the information is correct
rg
Phil

fixed quote box

 

[bobfog]

Well what can i say,

The missing portion of the blabe after the shoulder is the "gullet"

The Panther is not a rip blade , its a course crosscut. Rip blades have square teeth.

I actually cant be bothered to continue with this.

That video was about as helpfull as a car salesman saying "yes its a car"

There was no mention of the effects of feed rate , rake of the teeth , materials or depth of cut all of which have great effects on the performance of a blade and influence of blade selection.

If you are going to set yourself up as a font of knowledge as least make that knowledge all encompassing

Seems like a rather unprovoked attack on Peter!

I'm sure Peter would confess to not being an expert on every single wood working topic, but even on his weakest topics he's still more knowledgable than most and his videos serve to raise the average person's knowledge in a way that's accessible and presented in a fairly "low-brow" manner that anyone can understand.

I've personally learned from and enjoyed a lot of Peter's videos, I don't expect them to be the last word in technical excellence, but I'd say a lot of people, including members of this forum, are better educated because of them.

Keep up the good work, Peter.

 

[peter halle]

I have to admit that the lack of civility earlier in the thread was unexpected.

If posters have differing opinions please post them with the intent that there will be a polite conversation.

Differing opinions and thoughts are certainly allowed and even healthy responsible debate is to be expected, but beyond that posts will be deleted.

Unfortunately because of the timing differences and all the quotes made to delete the "stuff" would disrupt the entire thread.

Civil or no post.

Peter

 

[Michael Kellough]

Phil said  " I recommend when asked the 48t blade for man made boards - exception being Ply"

Seems like you're saying the 48t blade is not good for ply?  Please explain...

 

[GarryMartin]

In the spirit of [member=41214]Phil Beckley[/member]'s call out to add other voices, I like to "pin" pieces of information that I feel cover areas in good, accurate detail that is easy to understand, and for blades/teeth/geometry/design etc., I have this one marked;
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/projects/essential-tablesaw-blades

It covers a good deal of information in a very easy to understand format. For instance, with regard to the depth of cut observation, there is advice about how many teeth you should look to engage in the wood when rip or crosscutting, and how you can optimise that through blade selection and blade height/depth dependant on the stock thickness. I've seen many people changing blades when discussing cut performance, but rarely see people discussing blade height/depth and how that can affect things.

From this, you can start to understand when using Festool blades only, how the "Panther" blade might not be most appropriate for rip cutting of some materials and stock thicknesses, or might require changes to height/depth to be tuned for best performance.

From a personal perspective, and much like other posts, although I have a "Panther" blade for my TS 55R, it's not been used yet. Next comes the "Universal" which has very infrequently been out of the cupboard. Finally is the "Fine Tooth" blade which *lives* in the TS 55R as most of my cuts with it are on panel products. I don't have any "Standard" blades for my TS 55R or TS 75 nor do I see the need to have them.

In my TS 75, I have the default 36T "Universal" blade and nothing else at the moment. The TS 75 lives in a CMS module and I have considered getting the "Panther" blade for this so that my go to blades in the TS 55R, TS 75 and Precisio CS 50 cover most uses (i.e. use the different tool rather than change the blade).

The Precisio CS 50 is pretty new to me, and for that, I decided if I didn't want to keep changing blades, probably the best all-rounder would be the "Universal" for the best combination of rip and cross-cutting of most materials I might use.

And in my Kapex KS 120, again I just have the standard 60T "Universal" blade and nothing else at the moment.

As I'm not seeking to stock tens of different blades for every machine to cover a multitude of scenarios, I'm happy with the compromises I've made to get the best all-round performance for me. If I had some special requirements that weren't a one-off, or had a high potential cost of failure, I'd consider getting a specialist blade, but for now, the small combination of blades I have meet a very high percentage of my needs.

 

[GarryMartin]

Seems like you're saying the 48t blade is not good for ply?  Please explain...

Due to its very nature, you're both rip and cross-cutting ply at the same time. Although the "Universal" and "Fine Tooth" blades are both deemed "Extremely appropriate" for use with Plywood, I guess Phil is just expressing a preference for the "Universal" blade in his experience.

I seem to remember this being discussed before somewhere, and IIRC, there was also some consideration about blade choice dependent on whether the plywood was veneered or not.

 

[Phil Beckley]

Phil said  " I recommend when asked the 48t blade for man made boards - exception being Ply"

Seems like you're saying the 48t blade is not good for ply?  Please explain...

Hey Michael
  I didn't say they were 'not good for ply' ......if MDF for example is being cut the gullet of the tooth on a 48t is capable of disposing of the waste as the dust is easy to be removed. Ply on the other hand is 50% end grain and 50% long grain so the blade is having to work hard to cut two differing grain types and with a small gullet with a 48t blade it can struggle to release the waste before the next tooth makes a cut. With a 28t blade the gullet is wider and therefore the 'string' that is produced can be disposed of before the next cycle of cutting is completed. So with less teeth, a wider gullet and a slight pitch forward with the tooth the blade can cut easily.
  I used to cut a many metres of draw sides from Birch ply and the above worked very well for cut finish, speed, and less sharpening due to less friction on a 28t blade.
  Others will have I am sure other methods and experiences so please share
rg
Phil

.......I should also add that the full 'length' of the tooth should be below the surface of the material so 18mm material set the saw to 24mm (ish). Not only does the front of the tooth cut but the side bevel will finish the cut so all of these elements add to the cut quality.

 

[ear3]

Thanks for the link [member=1943]Garry[/member] Martin  That's helpful information.

Let me just add from experiece that the Laminate blade for the tracksaw makes a big difference when cutting Melamine, producing both a chip free cut and not dulling after considerable use.

 

[Phil Beckley]

Thanks for the link [member=1943]Garry[/member] Martin  That's helpful information.

Let me just add from experiece that the Laminate blade for the tracksaw makes a big difference when cutting Melamine, producing both a chip free cut and not dulling after considerable use.

............due to the extra bevel at the top of some of the teeth. This reduces the 'pressure' when the tooth enters the harder material and then shaves the rest of the material away to leave a better finish.
rg
Phil