Festool UK TTS fined 8.2 million Euros for price fixing in Europe!

honeydokreg said:
Instead of hashing this topic over and over again why not go after the gasoline companies for gouging us on
Gas and
Jacking up prices overnight sometimes then declaring 35 billion dollars profits

Festools is not price fixing neither is apple and many more. This is the price of the
Tool. You either buy it or you don't. Period as simple as that

Other companies sell drills or saws buy theirs then. All most of you are concerned about with this topic is
That you don't want to pay their price and want it cheaper to save you money. But yet where you work do you want a less paycheck?  Or bid a
Job and have customer say well I can get it cheaper elsewhere. And you say well not with my quality and skills you can't.

Same thing   Buy I'm or don't. It's your
Choice
Click to expand...

I'd like to see the gasoline companies charge 500% more ... and then go broke. We have the technology to take all of the stress away from our planet, but because of corporate greed we destroy it. The "money" is an abstract.

If you want to protest against the oil companies, get a bicycle and add twenty years to your life.
 
hey warren how about an answer to my question i put out  there regarding discontinued lines and do tts cover retailers losses on such lines ? thanks , green .
 
green fever said:
hey warren how about an answer to my question i put out  there regarding discontinued lines and do tts cover retailers losses on such lines ? thanks , green .
Click to expand...

Hi Green

Thanks for the question, I believe TTS will take product back if it is in the current catalogue. I've not tried to return discontinued lines, if I've made an error and bought too many T12+3's just before the launch of the T-LOC systainer (which I did) then that's down to me. I wouldn't expect TTS to clear up my mess. Saying that, maybe I'm a low maintenance undemanding dealer, because when I've needed help with rapid shipment or loan machines for customers then they always pull out the stops to help.

Best regards

Warren

 
toolfest.co.uk said:
green fever said:
hey warren how about an answer to my question i put out  there regarding discontinued lines and do tts cover retailers losses on such lines ? thanks , green .
Click to expand...

Hi Green

Thanks for the question, I believe TTS will take product back if it is in the current catalogue. I've not tried to return discontinued lines, if I've made an error and bought too many T12+3's just before the launch of the T-LOC systainer (which I did) then that's down to me. I wouldn't expect TTS to clear up my mess. Saying that, maybe I'm a low maintenance undemanding dealer, because when I've needed help with rapid shipment or loan machines for customers then they always pull out the stops to help.

Best regards

Warren

I have been told by a festool employee that you are their best dealer(maybe in the s,east) I did ask why... you can pm me for the answer [big grin]

Warren
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for your reply warren , I have promised myself no more folding measures well at least until my current one grows legs .
 
Blimey, seems a like a huge fine to me. Might be the end of Festool  [eek].
 
Nah, for corporates a few millions are peanuts. Look at Samsung being fined for a billion and considering it a successful ad campaign...
 
You might be right. With a turnover of 340 million euros they should be OK. About 7000 Domino XL's should pay for it! But only if they got all the retail price from them [huh]
 
toolfest.co.uk said:
Good Morning

Head above the parapet time. Well it would be rude just to lurk in the background.

My initial thoughts as a dealer....

Initially bad for FESTOOL, who wants to get fined that amount of money? But as long as they can afford it then it shouldn't be a real problem. How things pan out after that who can tell.

Dealers are in for trouble I think, all it takes is one high profile internet discounter to take the profit out of a product and dealers will lose interest in it. We may find fewer demonstration tools being available, loan machines unaffordable, experienced well trained staff less keen to spend valuable time with a customer discussing products and stocks being reduced to make space for more profitable lines?

End users may well cheer at the prospect of discounted tools, hey who wouldn't want a hefty chunk off a KAPEX? But only time will tell if lower prices for customers and lower margins for dealers (which is where the discount will come from) means worse or better service and availability.

A lower cost could be a high price to pay?

Whatever happens we still love the product, I just don't want to see is as just another commodity, discounted on the front of glossy catalogues. Lower prices for me often means lower value.

Best regards

Warren
Click to expand...
I agree with Warren.

We have all bought Festool products because we wanted to do it. We accepted the pricing arrangements. The dealers, all of them, are great.

If we have heavy internet discounters people would go to the Festool dealers just to look at the products and then buy online. The dealers would be badly hurt. It is the dealer who does the demo, allows you to take a machine away to try and has the day to day hassle of dealing with people like me!

In my experience dealers use their common sense and offer quite attractive discounts on non tool items to help make the deal better for the customer.

I hope that we do not end up with an internet only market - it would be awful.

Thanks for all the help that you have given to me Warren.

Peter
 
Well they should do it like appliances, certain items are only sold buy places that have a showroom. I would make these things like the ts saw and domino etc, that way internet only places cant sell them. I'm not saying single tools should be massivly discounted but if you use the same dealer each time they should be able to offer you certain benifits, even more so if you bulk buy items. If i was a solid surface firm and wanted 10 sanders to replace the line of sanders i had i would expect a discount on the sanders
 
It will obviously affect dealers assuming Festool do actually make changes. However I think the biggest impact will be on the strength of the brand. The fact that Festool have resolutely refused to discount adds to the perceived level of quality in my opinion. Any individual or organisation that says "This is what we do, this it what it costs and if you don't like, tough" will always be perceived differently from those who negotiate on price. I think discounting could easily be perceived as a weakness in the Festool brand. It will lose some of it's exclusivity.

I have to admit that I would actually be slightly disappointed if they do discount. They will still be expensive tools and discounts won't really entice me to buy anything. However the "tool snob" part of me will no longer be able to say to others that the stuff is so good that it is impossible to get a discount. It has sort of helped me justify the money I have spent on Festool over the last few years.

 
 
Maybe instead of discounting products Festool could reward constant customers in other ways
Dealers could have stock of tshirts etc for Festool customers who are known for buying a lot or how about free loan/trial equipment for us to demo as most of the things I want to try aren't stocked as usual items in store
 
i think a good way around this would be a reward system. . like a tesco card etc. you would be rewarded with cheaper prices the more you buy . or give the customer the choice of money off or the same value of accesories.
i dont want to devalue the brand adn certanly dont want to lose my local dealer. yes the tools might be a little cheaper but it will take a lot longer to get them and there wont be anypersonal service. i allways buy  off of my local dealer. i could my tools cheaper in the uk but i would rather pay a bit more to keep the service local. i have no problem telling them that thow.
i rang my dealer at 5 25 (closeing at 5 30) to price a laser level gadget . he brought it home with him and i went over there(only a mile or 2 away) to play with it.
where else would you get that service.
 
Alan m said:
.......

i rang my dealer at 5 25 (closeing at 5 30) to price a laser level gadget . he brought it home with him and i went over there(only a mile or 2 away) to play with it.
where else would you get that service.
Click to expand...
The same happened with me when I wanted something urgent from Toolfest. Warren took it home, I dropped in and I was made welcome despite it being a very busy day off for his daughter's birthday.

Peter
 
As mentioned above, the 8.2 million will be paid by all consumers. Ironic that
the loudest snivelers shot themselves in the foot and they may or may not
understand this.
Maybe an 8.2 million tax credit for Research and Development could spur more
economic activity as opposed to a punitive fine?
Hello higher prices, thank you snivelers.
[eek]
 
Interesting Topic, I live in France and do a lot of work in Spain and have a very good Festool Dealer there and as a result ended up in FESTOOLS system of "TOOLS FOR PROFIT". It basically works like another member suggested the more you bye from them the more you get back. Each year i bye my tools and from them i receive points for the purchase and at the end of the year i receive a check back from Festool of money i can put towards my next item. The more i spend the more i get. So i guess i am getting it discounted!!!!

Dean
 
Dean Pilatti said:
Interesting Topic, I live in France and do a lot of work in Spain and have a very good Festool Dealer there and as a result ended up in FESTOOLS system of "TOOLS FOR PROFIT". It basically works like another member suggested the more you bye from them the more you get back. Each year i bye my tools and from them i receive points for the purchase and at the end of the year i receive a check back from Festool of money i can put towards my next item. The more i spend the more i get. So i guess i am getting it discounted!!!!

Dean
Click to expand...

WHAT. never heard of that before. sounds good thow
 
Stone Message said:
Alan m said:
.......

i rang my dealer at 5 25 (closeing at 5 30) to price a laser level gadget . he brought it home with him and i went over there(only a mile or 2 away) to play with it.
where else would you get that service.
Click to expand...
The same happened with me when I wanted something urgent from Toolfest. Warren took it home, I dropped in and I was made welcome despite it being a very busy day off for his daughter's birthday.

Peter
Click to expand...

Some good examples of retailers building good customer relationships which can generate loyalty.  However, not everyone is going to be in a position, or want, to get that close to their retailers.

This is an interesting discussion.

Resale price maintenance is illegal, plain and simple.  Festool have been at it for years and I remember being quite shocked to hear how brazen their actions were, when I discussed the situation in some depth with a dealer.  It is disappointing that it has taken so long for the law to be enforced.  The fine is not insubstantial, but is probably just seen as in the line of normal business risk.  There is alot of it about - personally, I think there should be stronger sanctions against directors responsible for breaking the law in this way (eg disqualifying them from acting as directors etc) - that is the only way to stamp out illegal practices.

You could debate whether RPM is necessarily bad (manufacturers should be free to set their own arrangements with distributors / customers can buy other products / good to protect distributor channels / encourage investment in the product by distributors etc etc) but it has been held to be generally against the public interest (in the UK anyway).

I guess the market will determine how distribution channels evolve - I have bought my many Festool "investments" from the full range of local dealers, online suppliers, national dealer, both online and in store (ie Axminster).  I have bought a few spur of the moment items from Axminster's (excellent) showroom, but really I do not need to trundle all the way over to a showroom to check out most stuff.  I think I first got into Festool from a few tool exhibitions and have since bought many items from online info.  So I would probably major on price and delivery from an online supplier which for me is the most convenient way of buying, whilst still indulging in an occasional trip to Axminster's emporium or a local dealer where there is value in looking at stuff you might not have thought you needed!  It seems ok to me that prices may not be the same in different distributors, and that customers may be able to bargain with their retailers (where the personal contact is valuable). 

So I am sure that RPM is a bad thing and it is a good thing that Festool have been taken to task. 

Just my experience.

Cheers

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top