Festool USA discontinuing the 5000mm (197") guide rail

[Shane Holland]

If this one is on your list, order soon.  [wink]

Once it's sold out, customers will need to order shorter rails and use connectors.
https://www.toolnut.com/festool-491500-fs-5000-197-guide-rail.html

Shane

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I have only ever seen one of those in real life. They have one on the wall at one of the local dealers. I don't know anyone who has actually used one? It is probably fantastic, for a very few situations.

 

[Lincoln]

Such a weird product! Doesn't really go with the 'mobile' set up these tools are based on. I've seen two of the 3000mm rails, in the wild - one was being used by a crew cutting 'alucobond' cladding, the other one was bent around a roofrack, after the wind got under it, as someone was driving out of the tool store.

 

[peter halle]

I have only ever seen one of those in real life. They have one on the wall at one of the local dealers. I don't know anyone who has actually used one? It is probably fantastic, for a very few situations.

It is a niche add-on.  Used many times as just a really long straightedge.  Think gymnasium wooden floor installs.

I think that [member=1619]SRSemenza[/member] has one.  I sure don't.

Peter

 

[semenza]

I have only ever seen one of those in real life. They have one on the wall at one of the local dealers. I don't know anyone who has actually used one? It is probably fantastic, for a very few situations.

It is a niche add-on.  Used many times as just a really long straightedge.  Think gymnasium wooden floor installs.

I think that [member=1619]SRSemenza[/member] has one.  I sure don't.

Peter

Yup,  I use it for straight lining long boards. And ripping long pieces of custom trim.

Seth

 

[ScotF]

It would be nice to have if you have the room to store it!

 

[mino]

IMO this is a mistake.

This is one of those "system differentiators" where the correct action - if they do not sell - is to increase the price to compensate.

I guess this is tied to the new self-aligning connector set. With a vision that those who would need a 5m rail should go with 1900+3000 instead.

 

[kevinculle]

When one is not selling sufficient volume to justify making a particular product raising the price will rarely help...unless it's diamond rings or ladies' shoes.

 

[Cheese]

When one is not selling sufficient volume to justify making a particular product raising the price will rarely help...unless it's diamond rings or ladies' shoes.

Now that's funny... [big grin] [big grin]

 

[mino]

When one is not selling sufficient volume to justify making a particular product raising the price will rarely help...unless it's diamond rings or ladies' shoes.

It does work for things which are unique in some way.

If one *needs* a 5 meter straight action, one can buy a $500 6' engineer's straight edge and use it to ensure the joined rails are truly straight OR just get a $700 5 meter rail.

At that point, it would not really matter if the 5 m rail costs $700 or $900. I would buy it anyway.

By the way, when I look at the prices, the 5000 rails is actually underpriced - considering the complications of its transport and low sales:

800  ->  $95 = $118/m    ( $100/m + $15 per rail )
1080 -> $115 = $106/m    ( $100/m + $7 per rail )
1400 -> $145 = $103/m    ( $100/m + $3 per rail )
1900 -> $225 = $118/m    ( $100/m + $35 per rail )
2700 -> $355 = $131/m    ( $100/m + $85 per rail )
3000 -> $425 = $141/m    ( $100/m + $125 per rail )
5000 -> $685 = $137/m    ( $100/m + $185 per rail )

Based on above, the 5000 rail should be $800 just to reflect the logistic challenges. In the same way rails beyond 1400 go up in price - since their shipping is costly/complicated.

The current pricing is actually weird in US - it is almost economical to buy a 5000 and cut it into a 3000 and a 2000 as it goes only $35 above those two.

Now, considering the unique position on the market - combined with the low sales - they should put the 5000 at $895 and be done with it. Instead of discontinuing. At that cost it will still work as a show-piece at dealers and should cover its costs for storage. It would be enough to make a manufacturing run once 2-3 years or so as the $200 extra would cover the time-cost of inventory.

Edit:
Just checked and the pricing is similarly "off" in Germany. There it is even more so - the 2700 goes for €280 (pre-VAT) while 5000 goes for €497, making the 5000 -cheaper- per meter than the 2400, 2700 or the 3000.

To me it looks that someone who has ZERO clue of how these things are used/sold is doing some /wrong/ "hidden" discount/cost calculations which in turn results in the 5000 being a "loss leader which is not leading". Those prices are simply wrong.

Yea, I am complaining Festool is being too cheap. How did this happen ?

[member=101]Festool USA[/member]
For note, shall your considerations be adjusted.

 

[Chainring]

And for the ultimate Festool rail. Transport this one.
=250

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Such a weird product! Doesn't really go with the 'mobile' set up these tools are based on. I've seen two of the 3000mm rails, in the wild - one was being used by a crew cutting 'alucobond' cladding, the other one was bent around a roofrack, after the wind got under it, as someone was driving out of the tool store.

I have one,(3000) you see it in every reply I make. It has a safe spot, on a wall, next to the 1900 and a few Big Bessey clamps. I use it quite a lot, especially here lately doing the diagonal cuts on 61" wide sheets of laminate. I used it a few months ago with the TS75, straightening a barn beam to use as a mantle. Mine isn't going anywhere, until I have to deal with it at retirement. Sell it or figure out how to get it home, decision for another day.

 

[denovo]

I wish I had one of these last week. 

I was cutting 16' stringers to width by connecting a 3000 to 2700 rail.  I used a 8' level with TSO connectors and the cut was still 1/8" off over 16'.  There is too much leverage with the larger rails.  You can easily wiggle one even with the connectors cranked tight and forget about moving the rails. 

The only way I could get a straight cut was to place the connected rails on the wood, use a string line to make the rails straight and have someone stand on the joint while starting the cut to prevent it from pivoting in the middle.

If I built stairs for a living I would buy this in a heart beat!

 

[Cheese]

I wish I had one of these last week. 

I was cutting 16' stringers to width by connecting a 3000 to 2700 rail.  I used a 8' level with TSO connectors and the cut was still 1/8" off over 16'.  There is too much leverage with the larger rails.  You can easily wiggle one even with the connectors cranked tight and forget about moving the rails. 

The only way I could get a straight cut was to place the connected rails on the wood, use a string line to make the rails straight and have someone stand on the joint while starting the cut to prevent it from pivoting in the middle.

If I built stairs for a living I would buy this in a heart beat!

Ya, I feel your pain.  There is just too much leverage with that long moment arm which will/can skew the parallelism of the rails.

For those that need this capability, strike while the iron is hot.

 

[Shane Holland]

FWIW, word on the street is that there are only a handful of these left to be had. Not a scare tactic, just sharing info for those who want to snag one.

 

[mino]

...
The only way I could get a straight cut was to place the connected rails on the wood, use a string line to make the rails straight and have someone stand on the joint while starting the cut to prevent it from pivoting in the middle.
...

What I found the "issue" is also with the Festool anti-slip strips working, a bit too well ...

This means that with the rail being 180mm wide at a 3m and more spans the rail-bendign also comes to play (point 3):
1)
the "old" Festool connectors could not be tightened sufficiently /without denting the rail/, allowing movement. The Makita, TSO or the new self-aligning Festool connectors are much better here, Makita's still allow the tightest connection thanks to being coated with the paint acting like an "adhesive" with the aluminum
2)
the accuraccy of a connected joint depends on the accuracy of the last 200mm of rail form each side of the joint, for those who mess with metrology => this makes two rails with, say, overall deviation of 0.1mm have a "connected" deviation of 0.5mm _even_assuming_a_perfect connection_
3)
the lateral forces from the anti-slip resistance not only can move the connectors (especially the old Festool ones) but can even institue a sufficient bent on the rail, the bending can be to the tune of 2mm (0.1") over the 5m run if one "forces" the rail position /without lifting it/

The way I use to solve these:

1) This one is simple:
Do not use old-style Festool connectors for such long setups, go for Makita (ideal), TSO or new Festool self-aligning set.

2) This is simple for pros, tricky for hobbies:
Use a 3rd (4th) relatively long rail or a straight edge (1400 or more) to "place/align" the rails when connecting.

note: Yes, this has limited effect with self-aligning connectors as they will "want" to miss-align even so slightly, hence why you should really have a set or two of Makita ones for these purposes.

3) This is a procedure, applies also to single rail above 2000mm or so:
Place the rail gently, so anti-slip strips do not "overpower" the stiffness of the rail:
- place the stock on an even undersupport /within means/
- first place the rail "vertically" on its back on the stock
- go to the middle and gently flip it to be flat, this should prevent excessive force on the connectors
      (two people may be needed for a 6m run like yours, I had a 2700 + 1400 + 600 at the time so was OK in one person)
- THIS WILL NOT BE ENOUGH for the rail to be straight
- lift one of the rail in the air (such that about 2m lifts off the surface, so the anti-slip strips do not get into play) and gently place it down again, after this, DO NOT ADJUST this end
- repeat with the other end

At the end, to make sure your workflow works, take a laser range finder to validate you got a straight line, adjust as needed (the rail will bend to the tune of 1-2mm so you can "force it" if you have a reference line).

Oh, and to spike the Maffel fans, theirs are even worse. By being narrower, they bends even more when too long and them having no "non-self-aligning" connector option, there is no way to compensate with a straight edge or another rail so the errors add up ...