First Festool tool recomendations for new homeowners shop

[schtumpig]

Hi there long time listener first time poster....

We just bought a new home in December and I am ready to make an investment in the Festool symbiotic tool system so we can fix-up our new place. I just sold a 1975 Airstream motor home so I set that money aside for this purpose and though I would like to be frugal I am free to spend as needed. When I fixed up our first home I got a Delta miter saw and job-site table saw from my dad. After a while I  couldn't stand how sloppy and inaccurate these tools were. So when we sold our first house I gave the Delta tools away to a neighbor. I also bought a lot of DeWalt 24v and 36v tools fixing up that first home and those tools have been great so I don't plan on replacing them (I have a drill, driver, cut-off, nailer, sawzall, circular saw, light). We are planning to completely remodel our 1845 cape cod. That means I need a basic but functional woodworking shop in the basement. I figure to start with I will need a miter saw, track saw, vacuum, table, and router. So with that as my goal here are some questions for the experts on this fine forum:

1. To save money on new tools it looks like the only option is to buy package deals (I am thinking about both saw+mft table & kapex+dust extractor). Is there any other way to save money on new Festool tools? And what are the opinions about buying used tools if you have the money to buy new but are just a cheep sob.

2. I need a miter saw. So I need a Kapex. I didn't like how the saw runs into the Miterfast miter gauge. Are they going to update the Kapex in the near future (2015). I can wait for 6 months or even a year if a new Kapex version is on the way. Also if money is no option which is better the Kapex UG cart or MFT/3 Kapex table. I will be buying at least 1 and maybe 2 MFT tables as work spaces so if that impacts things. Also these tools will not be moved much and will generally live in our basement. 

3. What size vacuum (dust extractor) do people recommend for pairing it with the Kapex and tracksaw (TS55 or TS75)? I was kinda leaning toward the CT36 just because it was in the middle (The Goldilocks Theorem) but if the CT48 is better then let me know. Is the larger model just hold more material or are there hidden advantages?

4. I am going to need a track saw. I am a big-ish guy 6'2" and so the weight of the TS-75 is not an issue. In an old house like this there is a lot of real wood, so would the TS-75 be better at cutting hardwoods? Which saw do people prefer and why? The TS-55 or TS-75?

5. Router question. I like the big OF2200 router, it was well designed but heavy. I want to buy a Leigh D4R dovetail jig and I want to use the router for that in addition to general home work. Would the OF1400 be better for this dovetail side job? Also if I understand the OF2200 won't fit the router table which was a really nicely made piece I may someday want to add. So any options on routers?

I know that is a lot of questions. Sorry. Maybe I should have made this 5 posts. I am grateful for any advice. Happy new years!
   
[big grin]
   

 

[peter halle]

Welcome to the FOG!  Hold on to your wallet because I am sure that our FABULOUS members will be offering their sound advice here shortly.  I would offer mine but dinner is coming out of the oven right now.  [big grin]

Peter

 

[rmwarren]

schtumpig, welcome to the FOG also. You first post will garner you a lot of advice, so let me be the first to chime in as a DIY homeowner.

To me, hands down, the MFT/CT/TS combo are the most useful and therefore first choices. 55 versus 75 is a personal choice, I have the 55 and it works great since most of my use is in 3/4" stock.

I first purchased the CT36 & outfitted it with the Ultimate Dust Deputy, then lost it to SS Sandy and replaced it with the CT26, storage capacity is moot in the CT since everything ends up in the UDD.

The RO sanders are awesome, I use the 125 since I do a fair amount of work on narrower stock, the 150 seemed to large. I also have the RO90 which is a great little sander for detail work.

The OF1400 is a great router, I owned several PC/Bosch/DeWalt routers before buying it and the 1400 is what got me over a distaste for using routers. It will handle most bits/jobs and is a pleasure to use.

The Domino is a one-of-a-kind tool, most useful for doing rail/stile and cabinet box work. It is also a pleasure to use and you will come up with uses as you advance.

From there I think your collection will progress based on the needs of your particular jobs.

Well, that's my  [2cents], look forward to seeing you around the FOG.

RMW

 

[NHSP759]

I've got the TS55REQ and it plows through material no probs but if your house is old and your talking about real solid wood maybe the 75 might be more to your liking. I have the Kapex paired to one of my two Midis, works awesome and I added a larger diameter Bosch hose form this pairing. I've got the 1400 and it does everything I need. I've also got the RO 90 and an ES 125. Wish I had the RO 150 though! I've also got the Domino DF500 and it's honestly a great tool of your going to make your own cabinets or custom furniture. Additionally I've got the Carvex and the base kit. Absolutely love it.

 

[nclemmons]

Welcome!  Nice to have you here and you'll find we can spend your money faster than you can believe!

Vac - look at the CT26.  Good size for a shop but also easily portable if you ned it upstairs doing a project.  The 36 or 48 will be heavier so take that into consideration.  Only difference is capacity of the bag.  Same suction across the line.

Saw - I have the 55 and use it with a panther blade ripping plywood and hardwood.  75 would be better if you are ripping 2" hardwood but I find the 55 more than adequate as a hobbiest for most tasks.  I do home renovations and furniture.

Router - 1400 is the sweet spot of the line with great size and performance plus it will work with dovetail template and handle the broadest collet range.  It will work in the CMS table quite well.  The 2200 is not approved for the table in the US but works fine, and the table ships with the adapter for the 2200 even in the US.  I think it is overkill for a first router for general use.  The 1010 is a terrific router and would be great for you as a homeowner but I think the 1400 drives you more bit choices in collet sizes.

Kapex is a great choice.  It will work well with any of the vacs.  I would think about getting the workshop cleaning set which includes the larger hose that would be nice for the Kapex and it comes with the metal tubes and a Systainers. 

Consider upgrading your rails to holey rails for future considerations should you decide on the LR32 kit for 32mm work.

I have purchased some of my tools as lightly used and have upgraded by selling them on the FOG classifieds section.  They hold value very well and the warranty is transferable for the full three years.  Festool does a refurbished sale that just wrapped up in late 2014, so that might be something to watch for toward the end of 2015 or after.  You never see them on sale other than a close out on an old model, a dealer selling off demo stock, or the refurb sale.

MFT is a great choice in the packages you have outlined.

Hope this helps!

Neil

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

The truth is keep watching craigslist and fog classifieds for good deals.  Although I like Festool products I also like other brands.  I have a 12 dewalt miter dual bevel saw that i have had for 8 years and i use it every day.  Its in the back of my truck and gets beat up and its still true.  And when it burns up I will buy another one.  I do have an aftermarket blade and i get awesome results.  The first festool product i would buy is a sander and a vacuum.    This is where festool in my opinion is the best.  Fyi there is no sander that is dust free.  I think what people on this site lose track of is that you dont have to buy Festool Products to get quality work!  Its skill, patience and knowledge that make great work.  They didnt have a domino 200 years ago and theres great examples of craftsman that still exist today.  Festool products do what they promise, they make your life easier and that makes you faster.  Sorry for my rant.  Getting back on subject.  I find a lot of good deals on craigslist.  I recently bought a ct22 for $150 with bags and  accessories.  A mft 1080 for $150 with quick clamps and other goodies. Just make sure you study the product and if you have any questions ask on fog. 

 

[ear3]

You definitely want the 1400 with the Leigh jig rather than the 2200.  I have a Triton as my dedicated table router, so I've never needed to push the 1400 to it's max capabilities, but so far it has met all of my heavy duty hand held routing needs.

I think the 75 is also the way to go with what you're going to do.  With regard to the weight problem, it's not so much an issue of whether the saw can be comfortably handled, it's rather that the saw's size makes bevel cuts more of a challenge compared to the 55, because the motor housing is tilting over the edge, tipping the saw away from the rail.  I use the TS75 for most of my straight cuts, but when I need a bevel cut the 55 is my first choice, provided it can handle the thickness/material.

 

[schtumpig]

Welcome to the FOG!  Hold on to your wallet because I am sure that our FABULOUS members will be offering their sound advice here shortly.  I would offer mine but dinner is coming out of the oven right now.  [big grin]

Thanks! looking forward to your advice.  [smile]

schtumpig, welcome to the FOG also... To me, hands down, the MFT/CT/TS combo are the most useful and therefore first choices....I first purchased the CT36 & outfitted it with the Ultimate Dust Deputy, then lost it to SS Sandy and replaced it with the CT26, storage capacity is moot in the CT since everything ends up in the UDD.
The OF1400 is a great router...
RMW

Sorry you lost your CT36 to SS Sandy  [sad] I have looked into the dust collectors and it is good to hear that the CT26 would work well in that combo. Thanks also for recommending the MFT/CT/TS combo, I never liked the job-site table saw system I had, and a full sized table saw is more tool than I want. As for the router I think the OF1400 is going to work well, I prefer 1/2" bits for a lot of applications. Thanks RMW!

I've got the TS55REQ and it plows through material no probs but if your house is old and your talking about real solid wood maybe the 75 might be more to your liking. I have the Kapex paired to one of my two Midis, works awesome and I added a larger diameter Bosch hose form this pairing. I've got the 1400 and it does everything I need. I've also got the RO 90 and an ES 125. Wish I had the RO 150 though! I've also got the Domino DF500 and it's honestly a great tool of your going to make your own cabinets or custom furniture. Additionally I've got the Carvex and the base kit. Absolutely love it.

Thanks CrisK. Another vote for the OF1400. I think that starts to settle the router question. Thanks for the sander/domino recommendation. I am still not sure which track saw to go with. The house has a lot of hand hewn beams and so at some point I may need the bigger saw but I like the lighter, smarter, better approach that Festool embraces and the TS55 is more inline with that kind of philosophy.

Welcome!  Nice to have you here and you'll find we can spend your money faster than you can believe!
Vac - look at the CT26.
Saw - I have the 55 and use it with a panther blade ripping plywood and hardwood. 
Router - 1400 is the sweet spot of the line with great size and performance plus it will work with dovetail template and handle the broadest collet range.
Kapex is a great choice.
Consider upgrading your rails to holey rails for future considerations should you decide on the LR32 kit for 32mm work.
MFT is a great choice in the packages you have outlined.
Neil

Neil that helps a ton. I think since the CT26 provides the same suction as the bigger models I will go with that one. We recently bought a pair of Miele (German made) vacuum cleaners and I hope that the CT26 is as good. I think the TS55 with a panther blade would be a good combo. All of the wood in the house is hardwood but most of the wood I am going to be adding is going to be store bought and so a lot thinner. Not quite sure yet but I am leaning toward the TS55. I will defiantly check out the rail upgrade. Another vote for the OF1400, I think that is for sure at this point. And again thanks for the sales advise, I think the package deals (TS55+MFT and Kapex+CT26) are calling my name.

The truth is keep watching craigslist and fog classifieds for good deals.... I think what people on this site lose track of is that you dont have to buy Festool Products to get quality work!  Its skill, patience and knowledge that make great work.  They didnt have a domino 200 years ago and theres great examples of craftsman that still exist today.  Festool products do what they promise, they make your life easier and that makes you faster.  Sorry for my rant.  Getting back on subject.  I find a lot of good deals on craigslist.

Thanks Tyler! Your absolutely right that quality comes from the heart not from the tool. I do all my work by the old Stickley saying "Als Ik Kan" — an old Flemish craftsman's phrase translated as "to the best of my ability." That is one reason I would be a terrible carpenter, I would never get work done fast enough to make any money at it. The house we bought was built in 1845 and there is not one square angle of level floor in it, but there is lots of heart. I am a little leery of Craigslist mostly because I have used it so much and I know how people operate in a free market. I think there are lots of great deals but you really need to watch yourself, and tools are kind of a lifetime purchase for me so I may go new unless I can really trust the seller took care of the tool.

You definitely want the 1400 with the Leigh jig rather than the 2200...
I think the 75 is also the way to go with what you're going to do.  With regard to the weight problem, it's not so much an issue of whether the saw can be comfortably handled, it's rather that the saw's size makes bevel cuts more of a challenge compared to the 55, because the motor housing is tilting over the edge, tipping the saw away from the rail.  I use the TS75 for most of my straight cuts, but when I need a bevel cut the 55 is my first choice, provided it can handle the thickness/material.

Edward thanks for the input of the Leigh jig! I want to make my wife a jewelry box for next Christmas so my plan is to spend $600 or a router and $600 on a jig, nuts right! [blink] But I can use the router in lots of other things so that would help. As for the TS75 or TS55 debate thank you for bringing up the bevel cut issue. I most cases I would be ripping down ceder or oak for doors/windows or plywood. I may eventually tackle some kitchen cabinets (I have never built any furniture or cabinets) I know that my friend who builds tiny homes recommended a standard table saw but for some dumb reason I like the light weight portability of a track saw and I am not a fan of a big heavy saw dominating my basement. Thank for the advice!

For now I think I am leaning toward
Router- OF1400
Miter Saw- Kapex
Vacuum- CT26
Table- MFT

I am still debating the TS75 or TS55...

I appreciate all the advice!

 

[buffalo]

For now I think I am leaning toward
Router- OF1400
Miter Saw- Kapex
Vacuum- CT26
Table- MFT

Good decision.

I am still debating the TS75 or TS55...
I appreciate all the advice!

How thick are the floor panels you need to replace in the house ?
Less then 1 1/2" ? Just buy the 55.

 

[dltflt]

Definitely go with the 1400 router it is a smooth and not the monster like the 2200. I would not trade my Kapex for anything. I have the older Ct's a 22 and a 33. The 33 stays in the shop, the 22 is our house vacuum. I love my Ts75 but there are times I wish I had the smaller and lighter saw. Mft's are a no brained. As for sanders I think you will need to determine the size of your projects. The RO's are great. I have the 90 & 150 as well as the ETS150/3 EQ and the RTS 400 finish sander.
If you are looking for a nice jobsite saw you might want to look at the Saw Stop.

 

[tiralie]

2. I need a miter saw. So I need a Kapex. I didn't like how the saw runs into the Miterfast miter gauge.

For a majority of cuts you will not even notice it's there. If you find you are running into it, take the miterfast gauge out and it works fine. Not a big deal.

Also if money is no option which is better the Kapex UG cart or MFT/3 Kapex table.

I use the Ridgid portable flip top stands with my Kapex. I will eventually buy the extensions, but I really like the MFT/Kapex table for Kapex and other uses on site.

I will be buying at least 1 and maybe 2 MFT tables as work spaces so if that impacts things.

Depends on your work flow and how you work. I don't use the Kapex table with the MFT's.

Also these tools will not be moved much and will generally live in our basement. 

Too bad. That is what they are designed to do. I suspect going downstairs to cut something on the Kapex will get old fast. Setting up in the same room or adjacent room while you work is the benefit of these tools.

3. What size vacuum (dust extractor) do people recommend for pairing it with the Kapex and tracksaw (TS55 or TS75)? I was kinda leaning toward the CT36 just because it was in the middle (The Goldilocks Theorem) but if the CT48 is better then let me know. Is the larger model just hold more material or are there hidden advantages?

If you are not going to move your set up around much I would get a large vacuum and the Oneida UDD. Unfortunately the truth is you will want to move these setups around. The bigger vacuums (36, 48) get heavy when the bag gets full so you may want to consider the 26 with UDD and when you need to move it.

4. I am going to need a track saw. I am a big-ish guy 6'2" and so the weight of the TS-75 is not an issue. In an old house like this there is a lot of real wood, so would the TS-75 be better at cutting hardwoods? Which saw do people prefer and why? The TS-55 or TS-75?

I like the TS-55 and rarely had the need to consider the TS-75 as I have a table saw for ripping thicker stock. That may change however.

5. Router question. I like the big OF2200 router, it was well designed but heavy. I want to buy a Leigh D4R dovetail jig and I want to use the router for that in addition to general home work. Would the OF1400 be better for this dovetail side job? Also if I understand the OF2200 won't fit the router table which was a really nicely made piece I may someday want to add. So any options on routers?

I only use 1/2" stock when I dovetail so I use the 1010 with my D4R. I find the 1400 a bit too much router but it's doable. I had the 1010 and 2200 with the accessory kit and I think that set up covers a lot of options. The 1010 is really a nice machine to work with. I like the 1400 and it's a very good all round router, just heavy for some tasks.

Tim

 

[schtumpig]

For now I think I am leaning toward
Router- OF1400
Miter Saw- Kapex
Vacuum- CT26
Table- MFT

Good decision.

How thick are the floor panels you need to replace in the house ?
Less then 1 1/2" ? Just buy the 55.

Thanks for the reassurance. It is not rocket science I know but it does help a lot to hear other more experienced Festool owners agree with the best basic tools.

As far as the track saw I am kind of leaning toward the TS55. The floor thickness kinda varies throughout the house it was all cut on at a local water-powered saw mill using a vertical straight saw blade. Ultimately there are lots of items I will need to rip down using the track saw since I am not going to buy a table saw (yet [smile]). I may eventually come to the logical realization that a table saw is just indispensable and I really like 3-HP 36" SawStop but those run 3,000+ so I am going to start with the track saw which is 20% of the cost of a big table saw and see how it goes for now.

Definitely go with the 1400 router it is a smooth and not the monster like the 2200. I would not trade my Kapex for anything. I have the older Ct's a 22 and a 33. The 33 stays in the shop, the 22 is our house vacuum. I love my Ts75 but there are times I wish I had the smaller and lighter saw. Mft's are a no brained. As for sanders I think you will need to determine the size of your projects. The RO's are great. I have the 90 & 150 as well as the ETS150/3 EQ and the RTS 400 finish sander.
If you are looking for a nice jobsite saw you might want to look at the Saw Stop.

Yea the OF1400 is the ticket. Good to hear you love the Kapex. I have a lot of trim to do and the gauge/kapex system is very well thought out. I also agree the smaller vacuum CT26 is probably all I will ever need. Good to hear you like the TS75. I am going back to the store and get my hands on both the TS55 and TS75 and play with them and make a decision then. The sanders sound great but as you said it is very dependent on the project so for now I am going to hold off until I have a specific use. And yes the SawStop is awesome, and the 3-HP 36" SawStop is very nice. But for around the same amount of money as a 3-HP SawStop I can buy the Kapex, CT26 Vacuum, MFT, and TS55.

One question I have to everyone who has a Kapex is what kind of table you are putting it on. Do you recommend the MFT/3 Kapex table so you can use your MFT to help support your material? Or do people use the Kapex UG Cart? I don't think I will need to be moving the Kapex much so portability is not too important. I have seen some nice home made setups using the crown stop accessory to build your own extensions. So what is your Kapex setup?

 

[schtumpig]

I use the Ridgid portable flip top stands with my Kapex. I will eventually buy the extensions, but I really like the MFT/Kapex table for Kapex and other uses on site.

Thanks! It seams like you have the MFT/Kapex and that setup is working well and is stable so that is very helpful. I looked at the extensions and they seem kinda narrow for cutting crown molding (something I see a lot of in my future). I may just build my own extensions using the Crown Stop (#494369) that are wider and cheaper.  [smile]

Also these tools will not be moved much and will generally live in our basement. 

Too bad. That is what they are designed to do. I suspect going downstairs to cut something on the Kapex will get old fast. Setting up in the same room or adjacent room while you work is the benefit of these tools.

You are absolutely correct sir. It gets old really fast. When I was working on our first home I set up the saws in the driveway because of all the sawdust and noise. But with the Festool system I will probably set up in whatever I am working at the time, especially with dust extraction. So for that reason I am leaning toward the CT26 to make moving it around easier.

4. I am going to need a track saw. I am a big-ish guy 6'2" and so the weight of the TS-75 is not an issue. In an old house like this there is a lot of real wood, so would the TS-75 be better at cutting hardwoods? Which saw do people prefer and why? The TS-55 or TS-75?

I like the TS-55 and rarely had the need to consider the TS-75 as I have a table saw for ripping thicker stock. That may change however.

So if you did not have a table saw would you want the TS-75 for sure? I know that the table saw is kind of indispensable but for the time being I am going to start with one track saw and see how it goes, the question is just which one.

Again Tim thank you for all your insights, and I appreciate you take on the OF1400 as "a very good all round router, just heavy for some tasks"

 

[Stone Message]

Hi there long time listener first time poster....

......
5. Router question. I like the big OF2200 router, it was well designed but heavy. I want to buy a Leigh D4R dovetail jig and I want to use the router for that in addition to general home work. Would the OF1400 be better for this dovetail side job? Also if I understand the OF2200 won't fit the router table which was a really nicely made piece I may someday want to add. So any options on routers?
[big grin]
 

I am just doing the final editing of a video designed to help people decide which Festool router or routers to buy. It covers the three general purpose woodworking routers (OF 2200, 1400 and 1010). I too have the Leigh dovetail jig (super bit of kit) and I mention this in the video.

I hope to complete the work today and I will get it on YouTube immediately and then start a thread here on the FOG. There will be a separate, OF 1010 specific, video which may have to be in two parts as I want to cover most of the extras that go with the router but this is at least 3 weeks away.

To pre-empt both videos I will tell you now that the OF 1010 and the Leigh dovetail jig are my dovetailing "Dream Team". I have used the OF 1400 with the Leigh and I have made several videos about that but at that time I had never even handled the OF 1010. Just in case you have not got it I strongly recommend the Leigh vacuum support as it means that there is no need to have any vacuum hoses connected to the router which makes the whole process so much easier.

Peter

 

[schtumpig]

I am just doing the final editing of a video designed to help people decide which Festool router or routers to buy. It covers the three general purpose woodworking routers (OF 2200, 1400 and 1010). I too have the Leigh dovetail jig (super bit of kit) and I mention this in the video.

I hope to complete the work today and I will get it on YouTube immediately and then start a thread here on the FOG. There will be a separate, OF 1010 specific, video which may have to be in two parts as I want to cover most of the extras that go with the router but this is at least 3 weeks away.

To pre-empt both videos I will tell you now that the OF 1010 and the Leigh dovetail jig are my dovetailing "Dream Team". I have used the OF 1400 with the Leigh and I have made several videos about that but at that time I had never even handled the OF 1010. Just in case you have not got it I strongly recommend the Leigh vacuum support as it means that there is no need to have any vacuum hoses connected to the router which makes the whole process so much easier.

Peter

Peter first off I have seen your OF1400 videos and I would like thank you!  [big grin] They were very well made and incredably helpful. If you recommend the OF1010 as the best combination for the Leigh then that is the way to go. I do like the ability to use a 1/2" collet but the idea of a "dream team" OF1010 and Leigh is just a thing of beauty. I will look into the Leigh vacuum support. I look forward to you upcoming videos and Happy new years Peter!

 

[dltflt]

One question I have to everyone who has a Kapex is what kind of table you are putting it on. Do you recommend the MFT/3 Kapex table so you can use your MFT to help support your material? ]

I use the MFT/KPex because mine stays in my shop. I also have the UG wings for the Kapex. They are very nice but I'm sure you could build something much cheaper and still get the job done.

 

[wow]

First, [welcome] to the FOG! You'll get lots of good advice here, and you'll also find that we are MORE than happy to help you spend your money!

[big grin]

I will be buying at least 1 and maybe 2 MFT tables as work spaces so if that impacts things. Also these tools will not be moved much and will generally live in our basement. 

Steve Bace (Festool Trainer) said at a demo I attended that the 'ideal number' of MFT's is THREE! Unfortunately I don't remember the exact reasons he gave or I'd post them here. Maybe I can find a reference, or someone else will post the answer here.

 

[wow]

One question I have to everyone who has a Kapex is what kind of table you are putting it on.

I currently have mine sitting on one of the adjustable Keter tables. It works great, and only cost $50!

That said, it is my intent to build a miter saw table station for my Kapex at some point. There are many good ideas for such a solution - check out the one by Ron Paulk and the one by Peter Parfitt for plans and ideas.

 

[Stone Message]

I think three MFTs is rather OTT. Just design some of your workshop furniture to have castors and to be at the Festool standard 900 mm in height. That way you will have all the in-feed, out-feed and other support you need and save some money to buy some other Festool tools.

Peter

 

[wow]

I think three MFTs is rather OTT. Just design some of your workshop furniture to have castors and to be at the Festool standard 900 mm in height. That way you will have all the in-feed, out-feed and other support you need and save some money to buy some other Festool tools.

Peter

I couldn't agree more - I don't even own *one* MFT. I'm just reporting what was stated by a Festool employee and trainer.