First Table Saw: SYS 50, SS CTS or Skil???

[onocoffee]

I'm not planning on buying this before 2025, but I've been thinking about a first table saw. My interests are in furniture making: chairs, consoles, tables - mostly for personal use and not as a woodworking professional. Like many, I've got a small area in my garage to do my work, so compactness is important and my plan is to built a cart for the table saw that can move around to be put away, or to butt up against my workbench to serve as an output table.

I'm very much a neophyte to fine woodworking and probably don't know enough to know the things I need to ask about. I like the SYS 50 for it's compactness and being part of The System - plus, I do love the smoothness of the slider. I hear lots of YouTubers talk about the importance/benefit of the SawStop system and the CTS at my local Woodcraft looks quite nice, but is the inability to use a Dado stack in either that important?

What is important to me is to get the best dust extraction/collection as possible. I see videos of big Felder K700 with the overhead blade guard/collector and I'd like to see if that's possible on a compact saw.

Then there's the YouTubers, talking about "The Best Cheap Table Saw For Woodworking" and naming saws from Skil, Kobalt and DeWalt. I'm not adverse to any of those, per se - especially since they do offer more attractive price points. But I'm interested to know what saw might best suit my needs and I'm not shy to spend (or wait to spend) the money on the better fit.

Any thoughts on this will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[jeffinsgf]

While not very well adapted to dust collection, don't overlook a vintage table saw as a way to get your feet wet. The Craftsman and Delta saws from the 50s and 60s are extremely well built machines that can be tuned up to provide first rate results, and they can be found on CraigsList and Facebook Marketplace for a few hundred dollars or less. A couple weekends of sweat equity cleaning up and aligning and you have a better saw than any of the new "portable" saws on the market. I've done a couple where I incorporated dust collection into a mobile stand and ended up with pretty clean set-ups.

 

[Vondawg]

“Interested in my first table saw”
SAWSTOP

 

[cpw]

The Sawstop PCS I have is a great machine.  I would not spend the money on a Festool CSC, and instead get either the Sawstop compact saw or a Dewalt one [I like the fence system on my Dewalt compact saw].  If you are considering the Festool saw, then I would probably lean towards the Sawstop - you are thinking of spending that much money anyway and might as well get the safety feature.

A dado stack can be useful, but if you have a router you don't actually need one.  You can buy a router for the price difference between the saws; and have left over for materials or other small tools you find necessary.

 

[smorgasbord]

[member=7266]jeffinsgf[/member] makes some good points about going vintage, but I don't think that's the right approach for a neophyte. I think you need experience to know what to look for and how to restore an old saw. A cracked trunion or even a worn bearing are big projects to undertake when one probably just wants to start cutting wood. And since space is at a premium, you're right to be looking at compact saws, and the compact saws of today are way better than the old compact saws, which aren't worth restoring.

The SawStop has the safety feature that can be worth a lot. Depends on how you feel about your own abilities to be safe.

Otherwise, the DeWALT DWE7485 seems to be the one winning most shoot-outs. The Festool is nice, but do you really want to be running on batteries in your shop, plus you have to deal with a very limited rip width (I suspect Festool thinks you'll already have a track saw for cutting down panels).

EDIT: I second [member=63643]cpw[/member] 's thoughts on the dado stack, especially on these smaller saws. Take multiple passes with a ripping blade and/or clean up with the router afterwards.

 

[woodferret]

I have a CSC50.  I'd say as a newbie, get a Sawstop CTS Compact.  Especially since you're new and listen to youtubers, who let's be frank - like to run guard less 'for reasons'.  Even retarded Festool NA runs their shorts without the guard.  A lot of 'ain't that cool' tricks will necessitate removing said guards and using the riving knife only.

I don't do that with the CSC50, and you honestly shouldn't without resorting to making the supplemental guard - and even then it limits the things one can do vs the standard NA style saw.  The slider is useful only IF you're used to working with it, not against it and very likely, your YT subscriptions will be NA centric (I could be wrong).

 

[pixelated]

I also have a CSC50, I like it quite a lot, the fact that it’s battery powered was one of the reasons I bought it, as my “shop” space has just one outlet box. My previous saw was a 10 in. Bosch.

But it has a lot of limitations due to its size. As mentioned, not much rip capacity, and the small blade means you can’t cut anything very thick. I can work around that with track saws, and a 12 inch miter saw, but if the table saw will be a primary tool for you, you’re likely better off with a 10 in. TS. The compact Sawstop would be a good choice.
Before the compact came out, the entry point for a Sawstop was pretty dear for a noob, it’s still a good bit more than alternatives without the brake feature, but if you’re able to consider the Festool, that might not be a factor.
Besides, the price difference is a good bit less than what an orthopedic surgeon will cost if the worst happens.

The CSC50’s dust collection is pretty good, not perfect, but leaps & bounds better than my Bosch.

I agree with others that no dado ability is not all that important.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I also have the CSC50 and absolutely love it, the slider is incredibly vital for me, but I bought it primarily for loads of small fiddly work. It does perform admirably as a stop gap solution until I clear enough space to acquire a cabinet saw, and I have ripped a lot of timber up to 50mm thick which it handles fine, but it's definitely not a long term solution for medium to heavier work.

 

[jeh]

Any of the SawStops should be your target. The safety feature is worth the cost especially given you have never had one before. There are fair number of people who hate on SawStop or say it’s not necessary if you are careful. The latter ignores the word accident and its meaning.

The easiest justification is an accident will cost you ann insurance deductible and possibly be life-changing. I had a close to 25 year run without an accident when one happened. Luckily it was on my PCS I had purchased 5 years prior. Just a nick on my thumb. SawStop sent me a new cartridge and I had to buy a new blade. It turned a potentially mangled thumb into a reminder that accidents do happen.

I have CSC for kitchen and built-in trim outs. You need the stand to make it useful and a helper if ripping longer boards. The CTS has more capacity, but I think most would be happier with the larger capacity Jobsite saw.

 

[onocoffee]

Thanks all for the initial replies. Your comments help to frame my thinking as I move forward. I do like the CTS and see your points vs the SYS 50.

And while I found Ferret's comments entertaining, I'm not placing heavy emphasis on the YouTubers when there's a forum filled with experienced professionals here, which is why I asked.

 

[Huey52]

Sawstop

Any model with even their compact 120A60 worthy of consideration, especially if space-saving is needed.

Although care and proper procedures should of course still be taken, having the skin-sensing technology promotes confidence.

I outfitted my son and SIL with Sawstop to better protect them and their now nearby woodworking project interested children. Oh yeah, me too. 

Whatever tablesaw brand/model get several high quality blades to complement the types of materials and cuts you'll be making. I like Ridge Carbide but many good ones out there.

 

[ChuckM]

Not knowing your exact shop layout and size, but knowing what you want to build and the need for best dust collection and mobility, I'd recommend the SawStop PCS plus the upgraded mobile base plus the overarm dust collection. This set up -- used with a dust collector and shop vac or CT15 -- will meet ALL your stated needs, including almost dust-free sawing (with a few exceptions) and quality furniture output (provided you develop the skills over time).

I have a two-car garage and use it as a garage and as my shop (when the car(s) are moved out to the driveway). All my stationary machines, including the PCS and mobile workbench, are placed along the garage walls...I mention this just in case you want proof that the PCS suggestion can work for you.

This will be your first and also last saw purchase unless something better comes into the market, and you want to replace it.

 

[Birdhunter]

When I replaced my vintage Unisaw, I could have bought just about any saw except the monster sliders. The Powermatic and the Sawstop were the finalists. I liked the SawStop best and the safety feature was icing on the cake. I did buy the overarm blade guard and dust collector plus the mobile base. I’ve never regretted my decision. The SawStop has been ultra reliable. It has zero vibration and enough power to go through 3” oak. My experience is that, over time, my projects got bigger and bigger. A miniature saw would have sufficed for miniature projects, but not for furniture size tasks.

 

[sancho57]

as a newbie, did say take some woodworking classes at your local junior college or woodworking school, once ya get used to using a table saw then you can make a educated decision as to which one, size etc to get.

save ya the trouble of buying, trading and selling a bunch of tools that dont do what ya want

 

[onocoffee]

Thanks all for the input. I do have some experience with carpentry and "rougher" woodworking than the more fine woodworking I have an interest in now. But I will be taking a proper Intro to Woodshop course from my local Woodcraft in a couple weeks.

My questions regarding the CSC SYS 50 and SawStop CTS really boil down to space - and that I don't plan on doing much cabinetry or working with large sheetgoods (and for those occasional times that I might, I have the TS 55). And while I really trended towards the SYS, it looks like I might have the opportunity to get the CTS. Just had a discussion with a gentleman about a used CTS that was purchased fairly recently. It was a surprise and sudden opportunity and one that is very much unexpected. So, perhaps by the weekend, I might have the CTS.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts on this.

 

[Huey52]

[member=82312]onocoffee[/member]

The Sawstop CTS that I gifted to my SIL employed a Rockler fixed rolling base and I built up the rest; drawers etc.

My son opted to mount his CTS onto existing folding/rolling DeWalt stand (easy mod; sold his DeWalt saw).

With a better blade(s) and miter gauge fence (Incra 1000SE or similar) surprisingly fine woodworking may be accomplished with this compact saw. The SawStop rip fence is quite good for its size out of the box thanks to rack & pinion operation.

 

[justin_248]

I'd get a SawStop CTS and equip it with a Woodpeckers Stealthstop Miter Sled.  The Woodpeckers sled gives you essentially the same crosscut capability and capacity as the CSC SYS slider, with the added benefit of more surface area and the ability to create repeatable cross cuts up to 29" to the left of the blade.  The SawStop feature is extremely nice to have on a compact saw since these smaller saws have less table area to support your materials, making the user more likely to attempt things which may be unsafe in order to keep their workpieces aligned and stopping them from falling off ("just one cut!", which inevitability becomes a normal practice until disaster strikes).  The CTS also has a lot more cut depth (3 1/8" for the CTS vs. 1 7/8" for the CSC SYS), allowing you to cut thicker materials for things like cutting boards.  And the CTS' rip fence allows you to cut sheet goods up to 24 1/2" wide when compared to the 11" you can cut with the CSC SYS, which will be really nice to have when you decide you want to build shelves or closet built-ins.

 

[onocoffee]

[member=82312]onocoffee[/member]

The Sawstop CTS that I gifted to my SIL employed a Rockler fixed rolling base and I built up the rest; drawers etc.

My son opted to mount his CTS onto existing folding/rolling DeWalt stand (easy mod; sold his DeWalt saw).

With a better blade(s) and miter gauge fence (Incra 1000SE or similar) surprisingly fine woodworking may be accomplished with this compact saw. The SawStop rip fence is quite good for its size out of the box thanks to rack & pinion operation.

Thanks! If all goes to plan, I'm thinking of building a base for the CTS that can butt up to my current workbench to serve as outfeed. My space is relatively small so I've got to maximize as much as possible. But I'd love to see photos of your build.

And while I don't know what blade the current owner has installed, as I watch YT videos, those cats seems to always say that the OEM blade is trash. Any blade recommendations?

[member=1761]Justin[/member] Thanks, I will look into that Woodpeckers sled! Also, do you know if there's much difference between the Woodpeckers and the Incra Miter Express Sled?

 

[justin_248]

Thanks, I will look into that Woodpeckers sled! Also, do you know if there's much difference between the Woodpeckers and the Incra Miter Express Sled?

I like the Woodpeckers better. 

The first thing is that it has a long, self-adjusting miter bar, allowing you to really pull the sled far back from the blade, which allows for a very wide crosscut (according to Woodpeckers' site, it enables up to 22" of crosscutting). 

Secondly, the Incra is just that, incremental, and it has a ton of itty bitty indexing points along the fence in fixed increments, which seems like it'd be nice but the stop is actually very annoying and slow to adjust.  It's easier to not have the indexing points and just adjust the stop exactly to where you need it with a measuring device, and using a micro-adjuster on the stop to precisely dial-in the cut.

I have an Incra miter bar fence that I've since removed and would like to sell, if I can find a buyer.

 

[Chainring]

Another vote for the Woodpeckers. That self-adjusting leaf spring in the miter bar is, by itself, a cure to frustrating cam type adjusters. Bar in miter slot, done.