Flattening jointed panels

[Roseland]

I've started making up hardwood panels from strips jointed and glued together, and am looking for advice on the best method for flattening the assembly.

I've tried planing (with varying degrees of success) and suspect a decent sander would do the job quicker and more easily.

Although I have a growing collection of Festool kit, I don't (yet) have one of their sanders, and make do with a Bosch 230 which is achingly slow...

Any help would be much appreciated!

Andrew

 

[BobKovacs]

What size panels are we talking about, and how much leeway do you have in the thickness to allow you to remove material and make them flat?  And why isn't a planer working for you??

 

[Roseland]

At the moment I'm only talking of panels 2ft x 3ft (600mm x 900mm).

The panels are essentially flat (they've been glued whilst clamped down to a flat bench) and I guess the glue up steps are small - even the worst are under half a millimetre - so I'm looking to remove as little material as possible.

I have a planer, but it won't handle the width.  Hand planing is a pain because with strips oriented alternately there's too much opportunity for the grain to get pulled out.  Perhaps I just need a Lie-Nielsen, but that's another story!

A

 

[Guy Ashley]

Dependant on how much time, and what tools you have, then a belt sander to remove the worst of any uneven joins followed by a random orbit sander.

You are correct in that a LN Low Angle Jack first with a toothed blade followed by bevel up blade with a 40 degree pitch would be another way, BUT

your best bet, find a local joinery firm with a wide belt sander, they will put it through for a few quid and save you a LOT of time effort and heartache when you notice the tearout or have a dig in with a belt sander. [scared]

 

[Timtool]

when i need to make panels that don't fit in my 16" planer, then i first glue them up in widths that fit the planer.
once those are planed i glue them together. then i have fewer joints to even out. witch i do with a random orbital sander

 

[Alan m]

a wide belt sander would be perfect. you could use someone elses one or buy one like the axminster ones. i dont have one but have heard great things. paul marcel (fog member and blog half inch shy) has one and a few videos on it on you tube.

i suspect the problem is more allignment than any thing else. maybe you should change the way you put the pieces together.
you could domino them
buiscit them
tongue and groove than
clamp the hell out of them
use a dedicated glue joint cutter to allign the parts

i use the domino and never have allignment issues like this anymore. a quick pass with the rotex and anything small is gone

 

[Roseland]

Woodworking is only a hobby, so space and cost probably preclude a wide belt sander.  Happily I have one friend who does have one, and another with a Rotex, so I think I'll experiment before further investment!

Thanks to all who offered advice.

Andrew

 

[tbellemare]

RS 2

Tom

 

[atogrf1]

You could try mounting your router to a piece of plywood and running it over homemade "router rails".  I have had luck doing that.
The trick is just to make sure that the piece is secured down and the rails are perfectly parallel to each other.

 

[FestoolMike]

I have had very good results with the Plano Vertical Glue Press:

http://www.advmachinery.com/p-24-plano-vertical-glue-press.aspx

Results in flat panels that need to have excess glue scrapped off before sanding.  These will take up a little space on the wall, but they are removable and can be stored out of the way when not in use.

I picked mine up off of ebay for a really good price.  Keep an eye out and you might be able to find a good deal where you are.

Mike

 

[Notorious T.O.D.]

Find someone you can pay a few bucks and use their widebelt.  Come on over if you want to use mine! Best results and speed.

Best,
Notorious

 

[Nigel]

Andrew,

Borrow you're mate's Rotex especially if it's a 150, it will easily knock off any high spots and is far easier to control and less agressive than a belt sander.

 

[Roseland]

Thanks again for all the suggestions.  I'll try my mate's wide belt sander as well as the Rotex.  I suspect the belt sander will give better (flatter) results, but if the Rotex works I'll get one myself - I like being in control and not having to rely on others!

Andrew

 

[Nigel]

A fiver says you'll get the Rotex  [wink]

 

[Sparktrician]

It won't do you much good this time, but you might want to consider using a good set of cauls the next time you do a glue-up to keep the panels properly aligned as the glue sets up.  Just a thought... 

[smile]

 

[Roseland]

The problem isn't aligning the strips, it's that they are not exactly the same thickness.  The worst steps are probably half a millimetre, and they're worse on the top than the bottom.

I thought the problem might be my inexpensive thicknesser, but the last lot of ash I bought I had the supplier plane it to 19mm, and this is the result!

A

 

[pugilato]

If this is going to be an ongoing concern, you might consider an inexpensive electric planer.  It may not be the best, but it is adequate to rough planing, and the price is right (less than $75).

 

[Sam Murdoch]

when i need to make panels that don't fit in my 16" planer, then i first glue them up in widths that fit the planer.
once those are planed i glue them together. then i have fewer joints to even out. witch i do with a random orbital sander

Roseland, will you be making more of these panels or are you asking about a current & one time dilemma? If you will be making more +1 to this proposal. It's a good start & depending on how critical your finished thickness is your last glue up should be easily sandable without compromise. Be careful not to focus on that one joint as you sand or you will see the "extra care" when you finish the panels. I don't see how you can proceed without controlling the preliminary thicknessing of your stock. If you can plane it to your tolerances a follow up sanding after glue up with the RO125 or RO 150 would give you great results.

I recently built a solid pine cabinet in which all the horizontal panels were made up of glued up boards. I started by flattening my stock then running them through the thickness planer. Glued up my boards using dominos for alignment. The misalignment of the boards to each other was miniscule. My sanding option was my RO125 set up with a hard pad. This made quick work of flattening my panels. As I wrote in a recent post on this forum "Can I get real 220-grit sand quality out of a RO-150?" I wasn't all that happy using the RO125 as a finish sander on pine though I have had great success on hardwoods. Still, the RO made quick work of flattening the panels - just would have required more time with higher grits to properly prepare the pine for finish. Sanding ash with Rubin & Brilliant will be no problems.

For more info that you aren't asking about – This week I needed to sand 480 sq.ft. of wide pine flooring -just a light touch to clean before staining. My pine cabinet experience with the RO had me a little nervous so I borrowed a ES150/3EQ & spent 3 hours with it sanding the floor with 180 grit Brilliant. WOW, that's a finish sander. Well balanced, minimum vibration, easy to control. I now think of the RO125 as a prep sander & if I ever truly need a finish sander (especially for delicate, stain grade woods) I will likely break down and buy the ES150/3EQ.  For what it's worth.

 

[Roseland]

This is an occasional requirement - perhaps a 2ft x 3ft panel every month or so, so I'm reluctant to splash out on specialised kit like a wide-belt sander.

In an idea world I'd buy ready made panels.  There is a company in Lincolnshire that makes up panels for less than I can buy the sawn timber for.  The issue is transport - it's a 900 miles round trip, and shipping small quantities of 8ft panels would be exorbitantly expensive.

The Rotex seems to be a versatile way to go, as it has other uses; the question is 125 or 150.  I'm try my friend's 125 over the next few day, and if that works then I'll go for one of those.  It's more manageable than the 150, which would probably give a slightly flatter result.

Andrew

 

[fidelfs]

This is just me, but I would use the RS2E instead any circular sander.  The RS function is to flat surfaces, the rotex is multifunction.  I take the specialize tool instead of the rotex.

Use the right tool for the job.