Forum Guidelines Feedback

[Administrator_JSVN]

Everyone,

I wanted to take the opportunity to solicit the group for feedback.  I have drafted some guidelines that we will be implementing in the near future for forum members.  I wanted to give everyone the chance to read over these and give their thoughts and opinions before they are put into place.  We want members to play an active role in guiding the direction of the forum as we move forward.  It's important to us that we maintain a friendly, amicable environment for members to exchange ideas, knowledge and feedback.

This thread will be left open for comment until Monday, September 14th.

As we have already discussed, we will be selecting a number of members to serve as forum moderators.  I will also be posting another thread momentarily that will list the proposed rules for forum moderators.

General Forum Guidelines for All Members

Be nice, or don?t post.
This forum is meant to be a valuable source of information.  We really pride ourselves on being a friendly forum and we take it very seriously. We do not tolerate rudeness. If you have something rude to say - do it in a personal message (PM). If you don't like what you read, the best choice is not to respond at all to avoid conflict. Any member who is intentionally disruptive or violating this rule will be subject to posting probation or banning.

No political, religious or racial discussions.
We try to promote a community atmosphere here at the FOG and allowing such volatile topics simply creates conflict. Therefore, we do not allow threads that are specifically about religion, politics or race. If you wish to discuss these topics, please find a forum that is more open to these subjects. This is a power tool forum, so please stay on topic.

No typing around the word filter.
You may not post words or URLs that are censored by the website. This includes adding spaces, dots, or substituting any other characters that are intended to defeat the censors in place by the FOG forum.

Keep it clean.
Please remember that this forum caters to a general audience and we have members of all types. Posting offensive material including, but not limited to, text, images, and links will not be tolerated by the FOG. No use of explicit, obscene or otherwise vulgar language, images or messages including innuendo.

Keep it legal and safe.
Any posts that encourage illegal or unsafe activity will be removed. The member posting the material may face posting probation or a permanent ban as a result of the infraction.

No excessive thread bumping.
?Bumping? a thread means intentionally posting in order to have the thread displayed at the top of the new posts listing. This creates clutter and frustrates readers. Threads or posts in question may be permanently removed at the discretion of the FOG moderators.

No spam.
You may not advertise any business or product (including within signatures) without prior written permission from the FOG. If you are interested in promoting products via FOG, please review our vendor policies and guidelines (to be written) for more information.

No cross-posting.
Cross-posting is not allowed on the FOG forum. Cross-posting refers to posting duplicate threads or posts, or linking the threads or posts already started with the intent to gain additional exposure. These threads or posts may be removed at the discretion of the FOG staff.

No posting for banned members.
You may not post on behalf of any member that has been banned or put on probation from the FOG. This includes forum posts, private messages, signatures, photos, videos, or any material that is on behalf of the restricted or banned user.

No multiple usernames.
Only one user account per member, no exceptions. If you have lost your password or account information, please email webmaster@festoolownersgroup.com for assistance.

NO SHOUTING.
Remember, using ALL CAPITAL OR ALL BOLD LETTERS OR LARGER FONT SIZES is considered yelling and it makes the forum more difficult to read.

Keep posts on topic.
No irrelevant or off-topic posts will be allowed. Posts which are not relevant to the thread or forum topic may be moved or removed at the discretion of the FOG moderators without prior notice.

Country of Origin
This forum serves an international community of members.  Because products, services, terms and conditions vary from location to location, please provide your country of origin in your profile.  The FOG reserves the right to add the country of origin to your member profile based on your internet IP address.  This will help other members understand whether a post is applicable in their region.

Post editing & deleting by FOG Staff
FOG moderators and administrators may edit or delete posts for any reason, at any time, without prior notice to conform to the forum rules. Please do not debate these rules publicly or via personal message (PM). The rules are simple and designed to promote an enjoyable experience for everyone.  Your adherence is appreciated.

Respect FOG Moderators
Do not disrespect the FOG moderators. Be respectful in both public and private communications. Moderators are volunteers that donate their own personal time to help manage the forums and offer everyone here a great place to collaborate and learn. Violations of this rule will not be tolerated and may result in posting probation or a permanent ban.

Content Ownership
The Festool Owners Group encourages active participation on the forum in the form of posting content.  If any member or visitor uploads content including, but not limited to, photos, audio, or video, the contributor shall retain copyrights to their original material and may modify content at their discretion.  Content may not be removed in mass and modification should leave the content largely unchanged with the exception of spelling, grammar or other minor changes.  By contributing content, the contributor is offering the content into the public domain and gives FestoolOwnersGroup.com and Festool USA implied permission retain and use the content for its original intended purpose unless other provisions have been made in writing by all parties.

We reserve the right to add, modify, or remove any of these rules or guidelines at any time, for any reason without notice. Rules changes and additions apply to all past, current and future posts and applicable content.

Above all... have fun here! This is a great forum with great resources, phenomenal members, and a dedicated group of Festool dealers. Respect the space but also make it your own.

 

[Forrest Anderson]

I wanted to take the opportunity to solicit the group for feedback.  I have drafted some guidelines that we will be implementing in the near future for forum members.  I wanted to give everyone the chance to read over these and give their thoughts and opinions before they are put into place...
 
General Forum Guidelines for All Members

No political, religious or racial discussions.
We try to promote a community atmosphere here at the FOG and allowing such volatile topics simply creates conflict. Therefore, we do not allow threads that are specifically about religion, politics or race. If you wish to discuss these topics, please find a forum that is more open to these subjects. This is a power tool forum, so please stay on topic.

In March, after much discussion, Matthew created "The Far Side" board, primarily for political discussions. In his announcement, he said:

"I have created a new board called "The Far Side."  This board will be the only place in the FOG for political discussions. "The Far Side" will only be accessible to members who specifically ask for permission to see it.  To everyone else, the board remains invisible.

Do the new Administrators want to keep this board? If so, the rules will have to take this into account.

No typing around the word filter.
You may not post words or URLs that are censored by the website. This includes adding spaces, dots, or substituting any other characters that are intended to defeat the censors in place by the FOG forum.

Actually I didn't realise there was any word or URL censorship in place at the moment!

No spam.
You may not advertise any business or product (including within signatures) without prior written permission from the FOG. If you are interested in promoting products via FOG, please review our vendor policies and guidelines (to be written) for more information.

Again, there are currently three boards where product advertising is specifically allowed or tolerated:

Classified
Festool Sales & Dealer Area
Amazing Member Inventions!

If the Administrators are happy for these boards to continue, then the rules will have to allow for them.

Keep posts on topic.
No irrelevant or off-topic posts will be allowed. Posts which are not relevant to the thread or forum topic may be moved or removed at the discretion of the FOG moderators without prior notice.

There is a whole Off Topic group of boards, one of which is specifically called "General Friendly Chat - A place to relax and connect. All the fun off-topic stuff that doesn't belong anywhere else."

Once again, the rules will need to take this into consideration.

Forrest

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Forrest,

Thanks for the reply.  Let me see if I can address everything.

I believe that political conversation would be best on a politics-oriented forum or blog.  So, I personally think it's in the best interest of the forum to remove that type of content, especially seeing that there are only 26 threads total. The topic of politics is just a sensitive, controversial subject.  If a majority of the members want to keep that section of the forum, then it will be left but I suspect most don't come here to talk politics.  We want the members to choose the direction of the forum.  These guidelines were a compilation that I put together that I thought followed the ideals that most members seem to hold and would make the forum run smoothly.  The reason for this thread was to make sure that I was on point with my assumptions and to make sure that you as members agreed.

Yes, there is a URL/word filter.  I hasn't been utilized very much in the past but I think there needs to be a provision to have it in place and implement to address any specific issues that arise.  The most obvious would be to prevent the use of bad language.

Regarding the no spam policy, I can certainly append something to account for the Classified Ads section of the forum and that's a good observation.  The Amazing Member Inventions was never intended to be a place for product vendors (I think).  I think it was originally intended to showcase neat gadgets, jigs, etc.  I failed to mention it in my original post but there will be a separate list of guidelines for vendors and Festool dealers to follow.  That is still being compiled at this point.  I think it's important that this is also addressed.  I welcome any feedback, publicly or by private message/email, that members would like to share about this topic.

The section about off-topic threads/posts... If, for instance, a member posted about photography in the Festool Tools & Accessories section, that is off-topic and would be moved to the appropriate board.  Another example would be a thread about one subject and half way through the thread members start discussing something completely different.  Moderators would split that into two threads.  No one one read a thread about the TS saw, for instance, to find something about the Rotex.  Those two topics should be separate so that members can easily filter and find information.  I personally advocate having a section of the forum for members to connect and talk.  So, the board currently called "Off-Topic" should probably be named something more appropriate.  Maybe "Member Connections".  Again, feedback is welcome.

Again, thanks for the feedback and taking the time to read through these thoroughly.

 

[score0matic]

Post editing & deleting by FOG Staff
FOG moderators and administrators may edit or delete posts for any reason, at any time, without prior notice to conform to the forum rules. Please do not debate these rules publicly or via personal message (PM). The rules are simple and designed to promote an enjoyable experience for everyone.  Your adherence is appreciated.....
Respect the space but also make it your own.

My concern here is with the wording(which is necessary) and the Spirit behind the words.  We are to make it our own .... but for any reason our posts can be taken out or edited and no discussion is tolerated. even in private.  There is a paradox here.  There has already been a split of the online Festool community, due to overzealous control of this fourm, which has been largely remedied by Festool USA's takeover. I agree that Festool USA needs to control their fourm but the above quote sets the groundwork for this to happen again unless the administrators act wisely . 

  To put it anohter way. 

When you have to edit or delete a post, and you will have to, those who have made the FOG their online home should be able to look at the situation and say I think their right  (and we recognize that you are in the business of selling Festools) other wise you may start to lose your core again.  I personally have started posting a ton more since you have taken over.  and I want this forum to be a super accessible store house of knowledge  There is another forum that is much more relaxed so if folks feel the urge to wander off topic it is still okey .
 
as I am typing I see a super application for the above statement. 
45 days after the last post on a thread, if information is worthwhile go and clean it up so the on topic knowledge is brought to the front.  this way archive searchers can find answers to their questions with out wading through all the chit chat that makes online communities vibrant. 

Thanks for listening

Craig

 

[score0matic]

I read through it again and I didn't want to edit the prior post, the issue that I was trying to articulate is this "FOG moderators and administrators may edit or delete posts for any reason, at any time, without prior notice to conform to the forum rules."
The "for any reason" clause trumps "to conform to the forum rules" rational.  The statement as written will empower a moderator to remove someones post for  "any reason"  with no redress,  as opposed to removing a post "to conform to forum rules".

Maybe this is a more fair rule:
FOG moderators and administrators may edit or delete posts, at any time, without prior notice to conform to the forum rules.....

Thanks again Craig

 

[slb]

 
as I am typing I see a super application for the above statement. 
45 days after the last post on a thread, if information is worthwhile go and clean it up so the on topic knowledge is brought to the front.  this way archive searchers can find answers to their questions with out wading through all the chit chat that makes online communities vibrant. 

Thanks for listening

Craig

I agree heartily with Craig.  While a thread is "alive" the personalities that show through the posts are part of what makes the thread interesting, and the whole idea is to have a discussion.  But after some amount of time, a long series of "thanks a lot, that was a great idea" posts have no further value and just increase the effort to find information.  Unfortunately, though, I don't see any way to edit down the archival threads without asking someone to do a vast amount of work and without some amount of arbitrariness in what stays and what goes.  I guess I'd rather live with the chaff than burn out moderators/administrators!

Steve

 

[Holzhacker]

Keep it legal and safe.
Any posts that encourage illegal or unsafe activity will be removed. The member posting the material may face posting probation or a permanent ban as a result of the infraction.

Damn, I am so screwed. No more talking about using my TS75 off rail. I'd better watch out.

 

[wnagle]

Keep it legal and safe.
Any posts that encourage illegal or unsafe activity will be removed. The member posting the material may face posting probation or a permanent ban as a result of the infraction.

Damn, I am so screwed. No more talking about using my TS75 off rail. I'd better watch out.

If you mention not talking about it... that's the same as talking about it!  We're all going down hill fast... 8)

 

[Brice Burrell]

Keep it legal and safe.
Any posts that encourage illegal or unsafe activity will be removed. The member posting the material may face posting probation or a permanent ban as a result of the infraction.

Damn, I am so screwed. No more talking about using my TS75 off rail. I'd better watch out.

If you mention not talking about it... that's the same as talking about it!  We're all going down hill fast... 8)

And we're getting slight off topic.  ;D

I think the new guidelines are step in the right direction. Maybe a little tweaking on the wording. In the end the most important thing is reasonable enforcement of the guidelines/rules. I think that's what the moderators will want and Festool too. 

 

[Brice Burrell]

No spam.
You may not advertise any business or product (including within signatures) without prior written permission from the FOG. If you are interested in promoting products via FOG, please review our vendor policies and guidelines (to be written) for more information.

Okay, I've got my website in my signature line, am I going to be able to and do I need to get permission to advertise my site? My domain name is the same as my business so I'm technically advertising both. How is this going to play out. 

 

[sw1211]

That's quite a list of rules/guidelines.  One of the problems with having such an extensive list is then they have to be enforced.  I suggest shortening the list and simplifying it which will make it much easier to administer.  A blurb about Festool having the final say in all matters pertaining to the forum will cover anything you decide to do.  If you spend less time administering this forum you can put that time towards better user manuals.  ;D

Brice,  I have a feeling your site will be fine to list since you have a lot of good Festool info contained on your site.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Brice,  I have a feeling your site will be fine to list since you have a lot of good Festool info contained on your site.

Actually, all of the pages on my site that directly advertise my business are non-public pages. Almost all of the public pages are of Festool content so I'm guessing your right, I'll be fine.  ;D

As for all the rule/guidelines, I don't think they all need to be enforced day to day, they could be there just in case. That's what I was referring to by "reasonable enforcement" in my earlier post.

 

[ForumMFG]

Brice, can you PM me your business links?

 

[bill-e]

I've been a message board user for many, many years and I'm pretty easy going and tolerant about most things.  But there are a few rules I think are silly and would love to get changed or be addressed.

One pet peeve of mine is not being allowed to link to another message board.  To me, unless there are legal reasons for not doing so, I think it smacks of insecurity.  When I find information that I think useful to folks on this board I like to share it.  If that info happens to be on another board who really cares?

I dont like over moderating or public airing of dirty laundry.  If a user needs to be spoken to it should be in private.  I believe that discretion helps keep everybody's blood pressure down.

I think any complaints against Festool or one of the dealers should be handled in Private.  If a user posts something like "My widget's handle fell off and I've emailed Festool/dealer 5 times with no response" I believe that the Festool or Dealer response should simply be "User, please PM me so we can resolve this".  Far too often I've seen Manufacturer reps and users try and resolve something in public and it almost always makes someone look bad.

Well, that's not as bad as I thought.  Since work has kept me off the boards I guess I don't have much in the way of pent up frustrations

 

[Brice Burrell]

Country of Origin
This forum serves an international community of members.  Because products, services, terms and conditions vary from location to location, please provide your country of origin in your profile.  The FOG reserves the right to add the country of origin to your member profile based on your internet IP address.  This will help other members understand whether a post is applicable in their region.

I'm glad to see this and I hope the members are willing to adopt this. I decided to add the city and state (since most of the members are from the US) as well as country in the Forum Profile Information area. I also added my occupation so members will know my background. I don't think anyone should any more info than they are comfortable with but I'd like to see country of origin required and show automatically on each post under the avatar picture.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

I'd like to take the opportunity to bump this thread.  I want to make sure all members have the opportunity to provide their feedback.  Thanks to all who have already given their feedback.

 

[Mac]

There seems to be nothing on the guideline list which is in any way unreasonable. It seems to me that most of them come down to the members respecting and trusting the judgement of the moderators, and from what I can see this trust is already pretty solid. This has got my full support.

Rick 'Mac' Macpherson

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

I have posted a revised version of the guidelines based on member feedback.  These guidelines should now be adopted by members and will supersede any previous guidelines.  Please feel free to provide any additional recommendations, comments or questions in this thread.  Thanks to everyone for their participation in the discussion.  This will move us one step closer to putting moderators in place.