Forum Management

[Rick Christopherson]

My original posting was regarding Matt's passive aggressive handling of Festool communication which should have been handled directly and not with public postings on the forum. By moving my posting into another thread, it is taken out of context, so I am removing the posting.

 

[waynew]

Gee, That's odd. If I look at the various forums, the "Reference Library" forum hasn't had any new postings since June 27, and the "Gallery" Forum hasn't had any activity since June 20. Yet there is no concern on your part of closing these forums, is there?

Rick,

I'll let Matthew address the personal stuff for himself but I think you need to take a step back and review what you just wrote, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
Looking at Matthews stated reason for wanting to close the board, its clear he has a very good reason for doing so. The purpose of this particular board is for Festool (the company) to provide answers to questions from forum members and if that line of communication has stopped then that makes this board kind of redundant doesn't it. If its boiled down to owners answering questions and talking among themselves then the central objective of this board is no longer being served and will never be served because Festool (presumably) has decided they no longer want to participate. The kapex drama was a perfect opportunity for them to liaise with frustrated owners but there was zero feedback. You dont want that board to be there, giving the impression to new members and others that they are going to get a response from Festool if that is never going to happen, that would be just bad forum management. The other boards you mention may not be active but they are still very relevant.

From a forum members perspective without knowing too much about what has gone on in the back ground I think Matthew has done and continues to do a superb job administering this forum in a highly professional manner. I would like to thank matthew for his efforts, keep it up bud.

Wayne

 

[Mark Nowicki]

Thank you Wayne, excellent post.

I don't have a pony in this race, since I have no intention of purchasing any more Festool products.

However, I have to note  that  the US market is getting to experience the contempt and the arrogance that Canadian and European buyers have to put up with when dealing with Festool.

Festool's attitude toward the Kapex fiasco reminds me of  Audi in the 80's. Audi also chose to stick to its engineering guns and dispute the intelligence of its customers.  I  think Festool will suffer similar consequences.

Mark Nowicki

 

[Per Swenson]

Thank you Wayne, excellent post.

However, I have to note  that  the US market is getting to experience the contempt and the arrogance that Canadian and European buyers have to put up with when dealing with Festool.

Mark Nowicki

    You aren't Joking are you?

So if this is not a joke wanna tell me your definition of contempt and arrogance?

Contempt and arrogance certainly is not fixing and replacing every dang problem with any tool,

not just a kapex, immediately. There are Zero people here who have not had their problem addressed.

In some cases twice.  You have a axe to grind with Hafele or the European distributors thats

fine. Straight up bunch a nonsense draggin Festool USA in the mud also.

I never get angry, but ..........An Nah it ain't worth it.
Per

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Gee, That's odd. If I look at the various forums, the "Reference Library" forum hasn't had any new postings since June 27, and the "Gallery" Forum hasn't had any activity since June 20. Yet there is no concern on your part of closing these forums, is there?

It's not a lack of activity specifically that makes me want to re-arrange the "Contact Festool" posts.  For example, the "Reference Library" and the "Adult/Child Projects" boards have little activity.  The difference is, they are living up to their stated goals.  However, the one and only reason for a "Contact Festool" board is to contact Festool.  If that stops happening, there's no reason to keep the board.  As Wayne said, "if that line of communication has stopped then that makes this board kind of redundant."  Without contact from Festool, this board becomes another general area for discussing tools.  That could cause confusion.

You have a personal axe to grind, and you are trying to make it a public as possible. This is immature for anyone, but is extremely immature when you happen to be the forum administrator.

Totally false.  Where are you getting this information from?  In any case, if I had an axe to grind, I would not be devoting many hours each week to making this forum successful.  It makes me proud to know that customers come together here, and that Festool benefits from what we discuss.

I've said this before: I'm not judging Festool here.  I'm not speculating about their reasons for not taking part in the "Contact Festool" board.  This is about forum management, pure and simple.  Looking at the activity level, it seems to me that the board is not living up to it's stated purpose.

Also, I said before, and I'll say it again: I really like the idea of a "Contact Festool" board (it was my idea to begin with).  I absolutely welcome Festool's involvement here.  This is a call to Festool to come on in and get more involved!

I have been participating in woodworking forums for over 12 years now, and in all my time on the internet, I have never seen a forum administrator behave as poorly as you have over the past several months. This forum--any forum--is what the administrator makes it, and you have personally turned this forum into a quagmire lately.

You have used the "quagmire" criticism before, and I've politely disagreed.  If you feel strongly about this, please start a new discussion in the "Off Topic" area, and explain your points there.  I'm open to criticism about my management of this forum, and I'm fully prepared to change things to suit members' wishes.  However, I'm hoping to focus on the "Contact Festool" question here, not my management style.

Yes, I am sure your response to this will be "gee, I don't know what you are talking about", but we both know better. You of course could ban me from this forum for my outburst, or you could use this as a wake up call. That's up to you.

I guess what I wrote above answers the "gee" part.  I'm not sure why you even think I would ban you, since there's no history in this forum of people being banned!  This is an open forum, and you have the freedom to state your side.  Let's see who agrees and who disagrees with you.  I'm not sure how I could use your comments as a "wake-up call."  But again, if you want to get into this, please start a new discussion in the "Off Topic" zone.  I'd really like to keep this discussion on target.

I am extremely disappointed in your behavior lately. You have made this forum so antagonistic that no one could expect Festool from wanting to participate, and the tone that you are setting has left me questioning whether I want to participate.

Again, this that would be better in an "Off Topic" area.  There, you could cite specific places where I have been antagonistic.  I disagree with you, of course.  We've had difficult discussions lately about a problem with a major new tool release.  But that's not antagonistic.  That's what this forum is all about: communicating about the tools -- the good, the bad, the need for more information, how to get help.  The "Contact Festool" area is a perfect place for Festool to communicate with members on these kinds of issues, which is why I have been pushy about them getting more involved.

No one ever said that a free and open user forum would always be totally positive about the company.  If that's what this forum was about, I am pretty confident we would not have the membership we have now.  I believe that people respect this forum because we don't shy away from those challenging, even difficult, questions.  That's not antagonism.  In the end, I am confident that we all benefit from this.

I have this deep seated personal trait to want to help people out with information, but you are making it very difficult for me to choose whether or not to post my help here or not.

Again, this is more appropriate in an "Off-Topic" discussion.  Why do you keep questioning out loud whether you want to participate?  How have I made it "very difficult" for you? 

You need to grow up and start acting like a forum administrator.

Again, "Off Topic" please.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Overtime]

  Whistles blowing , flags are thrown from every direction as the referees run towards the confrontation - fans out of their seats yelling - (American Football Game)

I like having this forum, please don't bring it down. I don't think that the "average reader" needs to be part of this type of personal attack.
Please use PMs or start another thread as suggested. Is this some kind of power play to remove Matt ? I don't know but it just ----  OK just holster your weapon.

This is not my argument and I don't want any part of it, it's just my opinion is ALL !

 

[rnt80]

Thanks Overtime.  I'm not sure what it is about Festool that engenders this type of emotion among people (SMC had a heated thread  that was finally yanked a few weeks ago) but it's this type of sophomoric behavior that no one here wants to see or read.  I'm all for venting frustrations but, as you mentioned, do it in some other, unrelated thread or through PM's.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Actually, I think Festool is doing the right thing here.  I would much rather wait for a definitive problem statement with a solution instead of  speculation or happy talk.

As to whether the Contact Festool board should be closed, that's totally up to Matthew, its his forum.  Nevertheless, here's some thoughts on that.....

  As good as this forum is, an internet forum is not a good venue for customer service.  Its kinda sad when someone has a problem and expects to get in touch with Festool here instead of calling Festool service.  Its doubly sad when they get bent because they don't get an immediate reply.  A forum is a good place for somewhat leisurely and wide ranging discussion, not a place to get your specific problem fixed in a timely manner.

  I'm not sure how many people actually navigate through specific boards.  I always just go to the bottom where recent posts are listed.  If I'm looking for something specific, I do a search, but what board something is in doesn't help me much.

 

[Eli]

Fair enough Rick. I respect your opinion. I think that you have a great deal of currency with this community. You devalue that coin a bit by pulling the curtain aside on your personal feelings. I'm in no way questioning the legitimacy of your argument, just think you're in turn doing yourself a disservice. Unless you have higher level information you wish to share with us, speculation about why the company has not participated on the "Contact Festool" thread is just speculation, even if you are (my opinion) possibly in a better position to pass judgement on the cause.

I also think that Festool should deal with each customer privately, off the forum. It's our personal choice whether we want to publicly record the transaction somewhere here after the fact for education purposes.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Rick,
Do not write another post like that in this discussion.
If you want to get into this, send me a PM, and we can discuss it offline, or post in the "Off Topic" zone.
Matthew

 

[Matthew Schenker]

  As good as this forum is, an internet forum is not a good venue for customer service.  Its kinda sad when someone has a problem and expects to get in touch with Festool here instead of calling Festool service.  Its doubly sad when they get bent because they don't get an immediate reply.  A forum is a good place for somewhat leisurely and wide ranging discussion, not a place to get your specific problem fixed in a timely manner.

Just to clarify, this forum was never intended to solve customer-service issues.  It was meant to be a place for customers to get direct contact with Festool and communicate about the tools when people are a little confused, when they are wondering about something new, curious about reasons for particular tool elements, and those kinds of things.

This arrangement has benefited customers and the company.  By asking questions publicly, the answers can be shared by everyone.  By answering the questions, Festool has always had the advantage of spreading good information more immediately, and more widely.

If people have specific problems with their tools, they do need to speak with a service representative.

This board has always been a positive thing, and members have liked having a direct line to the company.  For whatever reason (and I am not going to speculate here or anywhere else on the reason) Festool has not taken part in a discussion here since late June.  Discussions here are, as you say, "somewhat leisurely and wide ranging."  That's why I am questioning the need for the "Contact Festool" board.

Stay in touch,
Matthew

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Good Morning,
This discussion was created from posts in the "Contact Festool" area.  Rick Christopherson's comments about me seem more appropriate to a discussion about forum management, and are not related to the question of whether or not to maintain a "Contact Festool" board, so I created a new discussion starting with Rick's post and placed it here.

People can use this discussion as a starting place for criticism or suggestions regarding how this forum is managed.  I'm always open to changes.

Since the discussion was started with one of Rick's posts, if Rick would like to have a different title for this discussion, I'd be happy to change it.

Stay in touch,
Matthew

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Good Morning,
I'd be very interested to hear from those who agree or disagree with Rick's positions.  I've received a lot of offline messages on this, including several from Rick.

Even though Rick deleted his original text, you can find it, quoted point for point, in my response, which is located in Reply #4.

I think a civil discussion about forum management is valuable for all of us.  Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[daveg]

I am, among other things, a professional writer. As such, I know how to read and interpret what people say. Many users here may not know enough about all of the postings and communications, but I do. To the average reader, your postings might seem innocuous, but when they are compiled together (both here and on other forums), they are anything but that.

I don't have the restraint and composure necessary to run a national company, but if you had played these games with me, I would have torn you a new bodily orifice long ago. Pretending to be innocent and not understanding what I am talking about is not going to fly with me. You know exactly what you are doing, and it is appalling.

You continually comment on Festool not participating in this forum, yet you don't seem to understand that your postings are paramount in their lack of participation. The fact that you apparently don't even realize this, is what makes you so immature as a forum administrator. No other forum administrator that I know would ever do this.

This is not about product complaints. This is not about company communication. This is about your "passive aggressive" tact with the forum as a whole. You could publicly state that you hated the various people at Festool and I would not respond, but when someone plays passive-aggressive games, that will raise my ire in a heartbeat.

If you truly wanted Festool to participate in the forums, you would not be making it such a hostile environment. I want to see more interaction from Festool, but every time I see one of your postings, I know from human nature, that you are driving them further away from making any postings.

You are the root cause for Festool not participating in this forum. That is the wake-up call that I mentioned earlier, and it is apparently falling on deaf ears to you!

I don't post too much, but.. what a disappointment in seeing these comments! I would think a professional writer would not choose to disparage his/her audience by implying they can't understand the real meaning of the written word. I think many or most of the people reading this forum have shown just the opposite by their ability to be a Festool owner. You disparaged Matt first and then went on to the members. It's clear who has shown poor behavior here. From my perspective, Matt has shown a level of patience and independence that many others would not.

 

[bonesbr549]

Good Morning,
I'd be very interested to hear from those who agree or disagree with Rick's positions.  I've received a lot of offline messages on this, including several from Rick.

Even though Rick deleted his original text, you can find it, quoted point for point, in my response, which is located in Reply #4.

I think a civil discussion about forum management is valuable for all of us.  Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Matthew

Matt, I read the thread and decided I did not have a dog in this fight so I'd stay out of it, but since you asked.  I think the moment someone takes something personal they loose the debate option.  Personally I did not read anything into your posts or for that matter the question in general.  I still don't see what the brouhaha is all about.  I'm still trying to figure out how being a professional writer adds to the argument, but thats just me.  As to being able to know what your are thinking by what you wrote, the only other person I've seen who thinks they have that kind of power (knowing what I'm thinking) is the wife, but I digress.  I'd vote for take it offline.  I'm not saying you two should not talk, but it should be offline. Your the sheriff of this hear town.  Your doing a fine job keep it up. 

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Good Afternoon,
I welcome comments and suggestions from members that I can use constructively for improving this forum.  Since the beginning of the FOG, that has always been the case.  Member opinions are welcome and there is a long record of how open discussions have led to changes that people want.

However, I can do little with personal gripes.

Until a few days ago, I had zero interaction with Rick, online or offline.  I'm surprised by his postings here, as the attitude is not based on any personal history between the two of us.  Since our offline communication the past few days is not working, I will try to have the discussion publicly instead.

If the goal is to help the forum community, I urge Rick to try a different approach.  With constructive criticism and concrete advice, I can actually make changes that might be necessary.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Rick,
I considered responding to each of the claims you make in your last post, but I decided instead to leave them alone rather than make more out of them.  In any case, my interest here is in seeing if this can become a valuable discussion about forum management.

I'm going to suggest that you take a voluntary break from this discussion, and let's see if other members have something to contribute.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Eli]

In any case, my interest here is in seeing if this can become a valuable discussion about forum management.

I'm going to suggest that you take a voluntary break from this discussion, and let's see if other members have something to contribute.

There is nothing at all valuable about this discussion. It's an almost total waste of time that has done nothing but make people look bad in public.

Since it's an appropriate time for suggestions, I suggest we all take a break from it. Permanently.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Rick,
Again, I am suggesting you take a break from this discussion.

I don't know what I should explain to the forum community.  I don't know what you mean about how I "reopened a dead discussion," so I'm not sure what the consequences might be.

My position is still the same.  If it is possible, I am interested in a discussion about management of the forum.  Otherwise, Eli's advice is probably the wisest path for all of us to take!

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Everyone,
Some of Rick's comments in this discussion derive from his belief that Festool is not participating in the forum because of my management, or because of some kind of antagonistic attitude I hold towards Festool.  (As Rick posted earlier, "You are the root cause for Festool not participating in this forum.")

Although I don't talk about it all the time, everyone should know that I maintain a regular, positive connection with Christian Oltzscher.  We communicate offline about a number of issues.  Recently, I've been communicating with Christian Oltzscher about Festool's general involvement in the forum.

To be clear, Festool's decision to stop posting to the forum has nothing to do with my management of the forum. Festool's decision not to post to this forum is related to events external to the forum.

That should clear up speculation about why Festool has chosen to stop taking part in the forum.  It still leaves the floor open, of course, for any suggestions about forum management!

Stay in touch,
Matthew