Freehand domino mortise marker

[CDM]

Hello from the northern suburbs of Chicago, IL.  I am new to woodworking, Festool, and the Festool Owner's Group, and have an accessory suggestion inspired by some beginning-woodworker mistakes I made on my first big project.  It's a hallway bench I made for my wife for Christmas using mainly my motley collection of hand tools (ryoba saw, #4 smoothing plane, block plane, cabinet scraper) supplemented quite nicely by the Domino Joiner and CT Midi I sprang for on my birthday.

The bench is made from a couple of salvaged jatoba boards that were wall-hung bookshelves prior owners of our house had installed.  Shortly after we moved in, my wife insisted that the shelves depart, so I took them down and, because they seemed like a really cool wood under whatever stain the original maker had applied, I stashed them out of sight in our utility room.

Fast-forward four years.  I've started picking up the odd hand tool for home projects here and there.  My wife wants a bench for the hallway from a chain furniture store here in the Chicago area, made nicely in southeast Asia and flat-pack shipped here, but still very expensive.  So I have this brilliant idea that by making a bench for her with my long-neglected salvaged wood, I can apply the savings to buying new tools.  (I know you are all duly shocked at such a scheme.)

Fast-forward some months to September.  I've spent many hours handsawing the dozens of pieces in my Sketchup drawing of what I want to make, then planing to width, all with a couple of handscrews clamped to my kitchen counter.  I realize that final assembly will probably be another some months, with the bench getting progressively shorter as I apply my total lack of experience to cutting mortise and tenons.  And I'm in my local Woodcraft store looking at all the dad toys when it occurs to me that I could get a nice tool that would be useful in the many home furniture and toy-making projects that occur to me all of a sudden.

That's how I ended up with a Domino Joiner.

Anyway, the side legs, bottom shelf and top aprons were a breeze, in spite of the fact that I had a lot of not-very-square, not-very-flush end cuts.  I also used the Domino Joiner for the top slab, which is made from the two longest, widest pieces of my original stock.

At this juncture, I should mention that the shelves had to come down because they hadn't been well-supported, so in the middle where a lot of heavy unread books had lived for who knows how many years, the boards had started to sag.  No problem for short bench parts.  Big problem for large bench parts.  In the absence of power tools for jointing and thicknessing, I hand-planed one surface of each top component flat, then edge-jointed them using dominos for moral and actual support.  Problem solved, except that at one end, one of the component boards was much thinner than the other.

When it came to assembly, I finished the base first, intending for the top to be easy - just putting the base on it upside down, marking domino locations, et cetera.  In addition to the underside of the top not being perfectly flat, it turned out that the side legs were also not completely flat.  I figured I would wing it, and mark each mortise relative to a nearest local flat surface.

This worked pretty well, except that "pretty well" meant I elected to use a rubber mallet to assist the fit instead of paring the dominos to fit mortise holes that were slightly off.  Kind of a Darth Vader solution rather than a Yoda solution.  This last-step shortcut got me a hairline crack in the top that I fully deserve.  Blah.

Half of you are now smirking and thinking "Rookie!" and the other half are wondering if I'm ever going to get to the "Freehand domino mortise marker".

So here it is...

I think it would be neat to have a small T-shaped ruler with a domino hole in it that you can slip over a domino in a routed domino mortise.  On the top edge of the T, there'd be a notch or mark indicating the middle of the mortise hole's long axis, and by drawing a line along the top you could get a reference parallel to the long axis of the mortise.  A good distance would be 10 mm, giving the same distance from the bit center to the bottom plate of the joiner.  The bottom edges of the T top should coincide with the middle of the mortise hole, so that you can draw a pair of mid-hole reference lines on either side of the hole to mark the long axis.  The bottom edge of the T upright could at least have a notch at the center of the short axis of the mortise hole allowing a reference line through the short axis at the middle.

In practice, you would place the gauge where you wanted a domino mortise, mark the 10 mm offset and mortise center or the long and short axis, then extend the lines and go through the mortising process.

Or, if you already had a mortise, you would put in the appropriate domino, slip the gauge over the domino, place the domino against the surface which is to get the other mortise, then slip the gauge up and mark that other surface accordingly.

So you could cut mortises free-hand without marking the companion ahead of time, or check for and recover from errors where the first mortise hole is rotated or shifted.

 

[Wood_Junkie]

First off, welcome!!    [welcome]
And congrats on both your successes and learning opportunities.  [wink]

Regarding your accessory, would it be accurate to describe this a Domino marking template? 
In other words, it is a little something you place, allowing you to mark (with a pencil or marking knife) the location of a Domino-shaped mortise, that would then be cut by some other means (not with a Domino)?

 

[GPowers]

We need pictures or a drawing or something to better understand [blink]

 

[fidelfs]

I think that is acomplished by the pins and if you want to make corrections then use the first wide set for the first mortise and the rest with a wider setting.

I understand what you describe similar at the B&D rule to hang pictures, kind of a story stick.  Is that an accurate description of your idea?

Welcome to the forum.... [smile]

 

[John Stevens]

Hi, CDM.  Congrats on the Domino--don't let your first experience dampen your enthusiasm!  It's a great tool, and there are some "standard operating procedures for boring the mortises and gluing the dominos that will make your work easier, neater and more accurate, all at the same time.  Since your post deals with marking and boring the mortises, I'll share something I learned from the good folks here at the FOG.

The domino has three settings for the widths of the mortises.  When more than one opposing pair of mortises are bored for a joint, only one pair (at one end, pick either end) should be bored with the narrow setting on both sides.  Assuming you want both ends to be flush, you'd index both mortises off the pins or flaps (depending on which model Domino you're using).  Otherwise, you can use a pencil mark for this pair.

As for the other pairs, they should be bored with the narrow setting one one side and the medium or widest setting on the other.  That way, the single narrow-narrow pair registers the opposing parts, and the others go together without any fuss.  (Of course, you glue the domino tenons into the mortises bored at the narrow settings first, and then slide them into the mortises bored on the opposing piece.)

If you follow this process, then you don't need a gauge like you describe.  Just mark out as many mortise pairs as you need with a pencil, put the Domino on the narrow setting, bore your first mortise on the "first" piece, then bore all the mortises on the "second" (opposing) piece at this setting.  Leave the machine running to switch to the medium setting and go back and bore the remaining mortises on the second piece.  Done

When I first got my Domino, I tried making all the mortises on a long edge-to-face joint with the Domino set at the narrow setting.  I did it because I read a couple of Domino reviews in which the reviewers said the machine was so accurate that you could do it that way, no problem!  Well, don't believe everything you read on the internet, even if it's written about Festools (unless it's written by Festool).  It worked, but it took a lot of might to get the pieces together and I'm sure there's plenty of stress that will lead to the wood cracking over the years.  I believe that in most cases (depending on how the joint is loaded) the joint will be stronger if done the way I first described, as compared to
having all of the pairs of mortises bored at the narrow setting.

Hope this helps.

 

[CDM]

Post-Christmas I finally got time to sit down and make a small Sketchup image:

[attachthumb=1]

So you would slip this gauge over a domino tenon in its mortise, then slide it up to the piece that will get the corresponding mortise.  You can mark the middle of the mortise length using the two narrow slots and the middle of the mortise width using the non-slotted edges.  You could alternatively scribe an offset line parallel to the long axis.

In the case of my project (pictures to be posted later) I think some of my initial domino mortise holes were slightly rotated and/or offset from the long axis to which I was trying to get them aligned.

On the customer side, my wife really liked the result, and has offered me a lifetime tung oil maintenance contract.  ;D

 

[pingvinlakrits]

I am not sure if I get the idea with the jig/template.

I have done tons of work with the Domino and most of it free hand and I have never felt the need of such a jig/template for joining stuff. If I need to join a wide piece I usually go with the marking pins on either side and then free base the mid ones with one side having one size wider on the width setting on the Domino. All made on the fly with no gadgets and more importantly: no hick ups.

For a recent Custom cinema build I made a two piece media bench approx fifteen feet wide in total and with a lot of "compartments" for integrated subwoofers and marking the top and bottom together with a saddle square made for a swift mark up and then 40 dominos later it was a wrap.

You should make a few boxes and stuff with the Domino to get a feel for how you can free base things before reinventing the wheel.

Henrik

 

[ajones]

Post-Christmas I finally got time to sit down and make a small Sketchup image:

[attachthumb=1]

So you would slip this gauge over a domino tenon in its mortise, then slide it up to the piece that will get the corresponding mortise.  You can mark the middle of the mortise length using the two narrow slots and the middle of the mortise width using the non-slotted edges.  You could alternatively scribe an offset line parallel to the long axis.

In the case of my project (pictures to be posted later) I think some of my initial domino mortise holes were slightly rotated and/or offset from the long axis to which I was trying to get them aligned.

On the customer side, my wife really liked the result, and has offered me a lifetime tung oil maintenance contract.  ;D

gauge.... pourquoi ?

 

[CDM]

I definitely need more practice, and am looking forward to getting time to do it!

CDM

 

[Tezzer]

I am not sure if I get the idea with the jig/template.
Henrik

Im the same with you Henrik. Im not sure how it works. Maybe a clearer demo would be to go.

 

[fshanno]

Post-Christmas I finally got time to sit down and make a small Sketchup image:

[attachthumb=1]

So you would slip this gauge over a domino tenon in its mortise, then slide it up to the piece that will get the corresponding mortise.  You can mark the middle of the mortise length using the two narrow slots and the middle of the mortise width using the non-slotted edges.  You could alternatively scribe an offset line parallel to the long axis.

In the case of my project (pictures to be posted later) I think some of my initial domino mortise holes were slightly rotated and/or offset from the long axis to which I was trying to get them aligned.

On the customer side, my wife really liked the result, and has offered me a lifetime tung oil maintenance contract.  ;D

I assume you have a domino in the mortise and slide the template on?  Interesting idea.  You couldn't actually butt the face of the workpieces together could you?  The templates would need to be at the end of the dominoes or you'd have to lay the second piece up on the dominoes.  Is that right?

 

[CDM]

I assume you have a domino in the mortise and slide the template on?  Interesting idea.  You couldn't actually butt the face of the workpieces together could you?  The templates would need to be at the end of the dominoes or you'd have to lay the second piece up on the dominoes.   Is that right?

That's right.

This alternative might be more useful, since you don't have to slide it over the domino and could double-check or mark reference lines for a lot of dominos more quickly.

[attachthumb=1]

 

[Tezzer]

I assume you have a domino in the mortise and slide the template on?  Interesting idea.  You couldn't actually butt the face of the workpieces together could you?  The templates would need to be at the end of the dominoes or you'd have to lay the second piece up on the dominoes.   Is that right?

That's right.

This alternative might be more useful, since you don't have to slide it over the domino and could double-check or mark reference lines for a lot of dominos more quickly.

[attachthumb=1]

CDM, is their a chance you could show some photos of it in action. Im still trying to get my head around it. I think im getting old and having to many seniors moments 

 

[FulThrotl]

I assume you have a domino in the mortise and slide the template on?  Interesting idea.  You couldn't actually butt the face of the workpieces together could you?  The templates would need to be at the end of the dominoes or you'd have to lay the second piece up on the dominoes.   Is that right?

That's right.

This alternative might be more useful, since you don't have to slide it over the domino and could double-check or mark reference lines for a lot of dominos more quickly.

[attachthumb=1]

now, in my not so humble opinion, what would be really cool would be a small molded transfer device,
obviously in festool green, that would slip into a domino socket, and give you a small thin flat surface, with
scribe lines sticking up, for transferring existing domino holes to the surface of a piece of work, for matching
stuff up. having the protrusion to fit in the domino socket only on one side would allow easy transfer of
the registration mark to either the piece of work that had been cut, or another blank piece of wood butted
up to the cut piece.... this would allow you to correct for things that didn't go quite like planned.

the part going into the domino socket would only need to be 3 or 4 mm, and a snug fit.

now, five of those, for the different size bits... how much could something like that cost... a mere pittance?
[big grin]

 

[Alan m]

you could get a triangular piece of ply etc and domino a slot at each width setting on each side and put a domino in each. on the wider settings the domino could be split and glued on each end of the slot or you could put it at one end  and keep that end at the same end of the slot. once you cut to the layout mark on this gauge it will mark the center of the slot perfectly. you would need one for each bit size