FSK won't take rail clamps... why?

[Roachmill]

This has been bugging me for a while and hopefully someone on here can shed some light on it for me. On a normal FS rail you have the slot underneath which clamps it to whatever you're cutting. Brilliant.

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The FSK rails have a similar slot but with the lips that clamps hold against are a no-show.

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Any reason why they're not there on the FSK rails? It would seem like a standard rail feature, so I'm perplexed as to its absence. Only a little bit mind you [wink]

 

[mrboult]

It's a good question

 

[RKA]

My suspicion is that rail wasn't intended to be used in that way.  It's intended to be affixed to the saw base and since the rail cannot be used with a standard TS saw, there was no need. 

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

It will be held down whilst in operation by the saw. The reason it cannot be clamped, is about safety, the rail and saw shouldn’t be fixed to the workpiece, so in the event of a slip, or the saw getting knocked of the work surface, the workpiece can easily separate, avoiding more potential danger.

 

[Roachmill]

It will be held down whilst in operation by the saw. The reason it cannot be clamped, is about safety, the rail and saw shouldn’t be fixed to the workpiece, so in the event of a slip, or the saw getting knocked of the work surface, the workpiece can easily separate, avoiding more potential danger.

That makes sense about the saw not being locked to the wood. Don't really want to think too much about what would be occurring should the saw need to vacate the wood though

I guess there's always the option of using a FS rail if clamping is desirable. Not that that's a common situation.

 

[mrboult]

I don't really compute the safety aspect. If the saw is locked to the rail and the rail to the wood... How is the saw going to hurt me?

I've done some more extreme compound cuts with the 620 rail and wished i could clamp the end of the rail down to help keep things as accurate as possible. Yes i should probably be using finer measuring and marking gear and the TS with a clamped rail.. But i wasn't

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

I don't really compute the safety aspect. If the saw is locked to the rail and the rail to the wood... How is the saw going to hurt me?

I've done some more extreme compound cuts with the 620 rail and wished i could clamp the end of the rail down to help keep things as accurate as possible. Yes i should probably be using finer measuring and marking gear and the TS with a clamped rail.. But i wasn't

The saw locks to the rail but, the rail doesn't lock/clamp to the work piece, as there's no channel for it, which is what Roachmill was asking. When the cut is made, the saw and rail come away from the work piece, and the blade guard will close automatically. If the saw and rail are clamped to the work piece, the guard will not close (safety).
Don't forget, the saws that are used with this system, are circular saws, albeit very advanced circular saws. So unlike a plunge saw where most of the blade is enclosed in use, and completely when removed from the track, a circular saw has a spring loaded guard.

This system is designed as a quick cross cut and mitre system, often where a mitre saw isn't present, or the work, or job requires cuts that are too large for a mitre saw. You're taking the tool to the work piece, instead of taking the stock, often long lengths of joist etc to the saw.
Many people compare or confuse this system with a plunge/track saw set up. They are two different set ups.

It is a very quick and efficient system, I was quite surprised how good it is when I was first shown it in action. The rail not clamping to the work piece, has never been an issue for me, and I'd find it a hindrance if it did.

 

[mrboult]

Yeah, as i said in my post, i own it so i'm fully up to speed on what it is and how it works. Not that you need to own it to understand it's simple function.

I don't mind the lack of clamp-ability but just mentioned there have been times when i would have clamped it if the option was there.

I was interested in an official reason, Im still missing the specific danger claims of clamping an fsk raiL.. Most tools are dangerous if you don't use them sensibly?

Used my HKC to make a plywood sculptural bat house off grid in a nature reserve last year, some of the cuts would have been much easier to get exact if it's been able to clamp the rail..

 

[TXFIVEO]

Wow, that is one fine piece of art!  Awesome job. Used my HKC extensively this weekend and I am a fan now!  Awesome saw for its intended purpose. Lightweight and cordless, worked like a charm and I didn’t have to get my TS75 and CT26 and extension cord...and then put them all away. Time saved...

 

[semenza]

I too think that it is a safety issue.  Yes, if the saw is always used sensibly .... fine. But for it's intended type of use the clamp would almost never be needed.  I picture that it would be common for this to be used one handed while holding a piece of construction lumber in the other hand. Not on a surface, just holding it.  Or cutting things on a roof. Or at the top of a framed wall, etc. The way a "regular" circular saw often gets used on a framing site. Of course that would not be something that should be clamped. But if it were , well that could be a pretty bad deal, especially with the blade exposed. Add in some fumbling around on top of a ladder or sitting on the rafters while clamping / attaching / removing the saw from the rail. I am  just guessing  that this is a type of situation that Festool decided to avoid entirely.

Seth

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

[member=22067]mrB[/member] Believe me, it’s a safety thing, if you’re still not convinced, I’m sure Festool will confirm.

 

[mrboult]

Ha ha... Guys, at no point am I talking about cutting 2x4s, especially on a roof, not even close. Why on earth would anyone clamp the FSK rail to a 2x4 to make a cut in that kind of situation or really any situation?
Not only would it be totally unnecessary, it would be a massive pain in the ass and a monumental waste of time. I think we should credit purchasers of these tools with more nouse than that no?

For a 600mm compound cut on a work bench or trestles, a clamp could be a useful option. The rails do a good job of holding their position on the timber, like they were designed to, but they are not infallible on a compound cut of 600mm, if you're really wanting precision. There's a lot of wobble in the setup still (relatively speaking)
"Use the FS rail" i hear you cry; but the 620mm FSK rails do exist... and not for choping 2x4 up a scaffold I'm guessing?

I'm trying to add up the number of bad decisions that would be needed before the dangers of this issue actually mattered...
I think it's a shame the 620 rail is lacking clamp options because of the lowest common denomination of user... If that's the case.

I didn't start this thread, I'm not really complaining or trying to demand Festool change it, i just think it would be better.

Also, don't these saws stop pretty much as soon as you release the trigger? Probably beside the point..
I'm afraid I just don't see the dangers beyond the general danger of idiot+powertool... But I'm certainly not  the one making the decisions on this, so we can all sleep easy

Cheers

 

[Spandex]

Having a non-retracting blade clamped to the work surface is more dangerous. It may not be a lot more dangerous, but it is more dangerous. By making the FSK rail incompatible with clamps, Festool have removed that danger.

Now, if there were no other rails available to use with the HK, I could understand the case for allowing a little bit more risk in exchange for the added functionality, but because the HK works with FS rails, it makes perfect sense to keep the two rails separate in terms of the use cases they're designed for.

I have to say, at no point have I ever wanted to clamp an FSK rail. FS rails are lighter and easier to position.

 

[Jiggy Joiner]

Having a non-retracting blade clamped to the work surface is more dangerous. It may not be a lot more dangerous, but it is more dangerous. By making the FSK rail incompatible with clamps, Festool have removed that danger.

Now, if there were no other rails available to use with the HK, I could understand the case for allowing a little bit more risk in exchange for the added functionality, but because the HK works with FS rails, it makes perfect sense to keep the two rails separate in terms of the use cases they're designed for.

I have to say, at no point have I ever wanted to clamp an FSK rail. FS rails are lighter and easier to position.

I think you summed it up perfectly. A blade exposed even stationary, with a retracted guard poses a risk, no matter how small a risk. A manufacturer will take no risk or chances with something like that. They always consider the consequences if somebody were to be injured.
When I’m using mine, it’s favoured for it’s portability, and speed. A clamped guide would not only hinder and slow me down, I would find it very frustrating.
The set up mimics a mitre saw in many ways, imagine using a mitre saw and after every cut, the head has to be unclamped to make the next cut  [doh]